Reduce squad application review time or grant spawn on level 1

[Adistar]

Hello,

Given that squads are struggling in activity for a while and the amount of gangs is way higher than the amount of squad, it would be good to balance this. One first step could be to reduce the application review time for squads from 1 month to 2 weeks (maybe keep it 1 month for level 1 so that the squad has time to stabilize itself. But this isnt needed; if an applying squad is not stable enough, it can be given pending), but possible warnings/demotions/notifications will still be given every month. This may attract players to open a squad.

Update: a discussion was going on about this. Another option would be to grant squads a spaqn at level 1 instead of 2

[Adistar]

Hello,

Given that squads are struggling in activity for a while and the amount of gangs is way higher than the amount of squad, it would be good to balance this. One first step could be to reduce the application review time for squads from 1 month to 2 weeks (maybe keep it 1 month for level 1 so that the squad has time to stabilize itself. But this isnt needed; if an applying squad is not stable enough, it can be given pending), but possible warnings/demotions/notifications will still be given every month. This may attract players to open a squad.

Update: a discussion was going on about this. Another option would be to grant squads a spaqn at level 1 instead of 2

[Durby]

If the application review time gets decreased, it is actually bad for the squad. There are certain requirements a sqad has to meet in the 1 month timeframe. Shortening that time will only make it harder for them to complete those requirements. Instead of doing that, what I'd recommend is to be more flexible with the requirements or when giving notifications/warnings etc...

The main idea is to be more tolerant and lenient towards squads. That oughta allow them to be easier to stay alive and attract members. But as I said, shortening the application review time will only make things harder. I think you suggested this thinking that if squads get levels faster, it'll be good for them. But imagine (for example) trying to find 10 members to get a level in 15 days, rather than 30 days.

(u still a noob tho)

[Daryl]

The root cause of squads struggling for activity is not, and never has been, the level system.

It's the gameplay - people prefer the criminal gameplay and do not want to play as cops, it's that simple. If you want to improve the activity for police you have to consider additions or alterations to cops gameplay as a first step.

[Adistar]

@daryl I actually suggested a few. Turf neutralization and a base raid system that can be similiar to gangrob system. But if noone is up to do it then other ideas have to be thought of

[Adistar]

@durby check topic edit abi I gave another idea. Maybe youll agree with that one

[Teddy]

@daryl Not really, quite a few people would create/join "temporary" squads just for fun/variety for 2-3-4-5-6 months Five-0 style, but the 3 month part-time-job-style expectation to get a spawn is just too much work.

Also considering that gang HQ chat on GM dc is full of ideas how cop side can be more active including things that take little to no effort but are obstacled by disinterested decision-makers (with prime example being including squads into the turf script with arrest outlawed or kept the same,) then you'll never get change.

I think the primary problem lies at the top as well as cop-side groups*, not at the community or gameplay. Criminal side is as large/larger than it has been two or three or four years ago, with zero script additions or major alterations since then. Meanwhile squads have decreased from 30-25-20 at peak time to 7-15, and we have squad leaders & GMs deluding themselves to pretend this has "always" been the case.

Been playing this server for a decade, never saw zero squads spawned until last Monday.

:::

*= Being how easy it is to join certain groups and rise in them (politics) if you're in the right squad (FOX DE, SWAT HLS. FBI somewhere in between, if you're SAFP or MIT might as well go crim side and try your luck at clo instead)

Two people can join CLO and DE in the same month. Half a year later the CLO recruit is promoted to Soldado, while the DE recruit is now in HQ chat leading a unit. Or totally inactive because they've achieved everything they wanted to. Also the criminal ban basically eliminated crim-cop switchers, the type that Lincoln & Scorpyo used to be.

On top of that there's some weird aversion among GMs for temporary squads, totally ignoring that the survability of gangs is equally low anyway but by nature instead. No new gang got Level 5 after ThC (2018) until X in 2021, a space of 3 years. Why is the expectation that squads have to survive until level 5 a default?

:::

[Durby]

@adistar Giving squads spawn in level 1? I mean it could work but there will be a lot of squads that die in level 1. That is just going to be pointless work for GM's. Adding/removing spawns, skins, shaders, squad cars is hard work. Adding and removing those constantly would get in the way of other organizations. Would block every1 from getting their rewards on time.

What cop side needs is new scripts and gameplay opportunities to make it more interesting. I play crim because it is more enjoyable. I wouldn't be surprised if %75 of the server chose crim side too.

TLDR; Cops need new shit to do.

[Rasta]

Cops need shit to do and I agree with it, but why not starting with the br system and solve it once and for all instead of cops using other spawns or disconnecting to prevent gangs from br? As far as I know it is an activity for both sides but it seems like cops dont want to defend the banks, they prefer to just run away and then want some new shit for them

[Daryl]

@teddy said in Reduce squad application review time or grant spawn on level 1:

@daryl Not really, quite a few people would create/join "temporary" squads just for fun/variety for 2-3-4-5-6 months Five-0 style, but the 3 month part-time-job-style expectation to get a spawn is just too much work.

Also considering that gang HQ chat on GM dc is full of ideas how cop side can be more active including things that take little to no effort but are obstacled by disinterested decision-makers (with prime example being including squads into the turf script with arrest outlawed or kept the same,) then you'll never get change.

I think the primary problem lies at the top as well as cop-side groups*, not at the community or gameplay. Criminal side is as large/larger than it has been two or three or four years ago, with zero script additions or major alterations since then. Meanwhile squads have decreased from 30-25-20 at peak time to 7-15, and we have squad leaders & GMs deluding themselves to pretend this has "always" been the case.

Been playing this server for a decade, never saw zero squads spawned until last Monday.

:::

*= Being how easy it is to join certain groups and rise in them (politics) if you're in the right squad (FOX DE, SWAT HLS. FBI somewhere in between, if you're SAFP or MIT might as well go crim side and try your luck at clo instead)

Two people can join CLO and DE in the same month. Half a year later the CLO recruit is promoted to Soldado, while the DE recruit is now in HQ chat leading a unit. Or totally inactive because they've achieved everything they wanted to. Also the criminal ban basically eliminated crim-cop switchers, the type that Lincoln & Scorpyo used to be.

On top of that there's some weird aversion among GMs for temporary squads, totally ignoring that the survability of gangs is equally low anyway but by nature instead. No new gang got Level 5 after ThC (2018) until X in 2021, a space of 3 years. Why is the expectation that squads have to survive until level 5 a default?

:::

I'm not delusional, I know it's never been this bad before I just don't agree with the idea that the issue is GM requirements. Squads already have it easier than gangs.

I know criminals haven't had any major additions and yet it is growing, but I would argue that is directly influenced by the lower quality of cop gameplay.

The server is actually easier as a cop, as in to 'win' so to speak - arresting favours cops but the interactivity of the gameplay doesn't.

Like any cops and robbers set up, the onus is always on the cops to wait for the robbers to do something, there's nothing proactive for cops and that element of the game is and always has been a massive draw back.

Aside from that, and without trying to take a back handed swipe at anyone, as a criminal there is a clear end goal when it comes to Level 5, getting dominance in turfs and ultimately being exceptional at bank robbing (a stat I am facilitating the competition for) but most of all criminals individually have the goal of CLO and DE simply does not compare either.

I could put 20 bullet points down on what is completely fucked about the squad side of the server, and GM requirements would be very far down that list.

I appreciate the feedback and the effort from criminals to theorycraft how to breathe life into the cop side, as ultimately we need eachother as a symbiotic relationship - but I think attacking GM requirements is the wrong way to go. We already have some seriously questionable leadership setups within the Level 1-4 squads who succeed under this current system. If we drop the bar on quality any more, we may as well pack it in.

[007]

Thank you all for the support and the kind words!

[Adistar]

My suggestion was more aimed at convincing criminals to make the switch to cop side so that ratio gets improved.

Also I just want to be honest about one thing I consider also an issue here. Right now everything about solving this whole problem is just being treated circulair and always results in no changes, with all due respect. First we suggest gameplay changes which get rejected due to lack of free time to implement those changes, sure understandably so. Then we look into ideas that would not have this problem, but now I get to read that gameplay changes have to be done.

Why are we even assuming all of the reasons given in this topic are practical? Reasons like "the problem lies at gameplay changes" shouldn't even be considered to be honest.

Try to do something as a first step and improve it from there...

[Cappo]

I support the idea, as the whole thing can be temporary.

We must all agree that the cop side is beyond dead. I admit that I haven't played a lot lately, as there's basically nothing to do, but whenever I get in, there are no cop activities, no signs of life by the cop side. To be completely honest, the last proper cop activities that I've seen and even took part in were in 2018, as the cop side wasn't as bad as it is right now and when there was some kind of organization within it, gonna remind you that it didn't have as many privileges as it has now.

I find it amazing how this gets pointed as an argument why the cop side is dead
@daryl said in Reduce squad application review time or grant spawn on level 1:

It's the gameplay - people prefer the criminal gameplay and do not want to play as cops, it's that simple. If you want to improve the activity for police you have to consider additions or alterations to cops gameplay as a first step.

Meanwhile there are amazing amount of scripts that got suggested by the players regarding this problem. I agree, some of them obviously will never happen and they must not happen, but there are quite a lot of quality ones that won't happen as well, just because one or two people said so.

So after that, when Teddy decides to mention what I just said..
@teddy said in Reduce squad application review time or grant spawn on level 1:

Also considering that gang HQ chat on GM dc is full of ideas how cop side can be more active including things that take little to no effort but are obstacled by disinterested decision-makers (with prime example being including squads into the turf script with arrest outlawed or kept the same,) then you'll never get change.

... Daryl changes the whole conversation to another nonsense.
@daryl said in Reduce squad application review time or grant spawn on level 1:

I appreciate the feedback and the effort from criminals to theorycraft how to breathe life into the cop side, as ultimately we need eachother as a symbiotic relationship - but I think attacking GM requirements is the wrong way to go. We already have some seriously questionable leadership setups within the Level 1-4 squads who succeed under this current system. If we drop the bar on quality any more, we may as well pack it in.

What? Personally, I think the cop side can't go anywhere lower than that, honestly. I do agree with Daryl that the quality is questionable, but I am sure it'd be really difficult to get lower. The quantity and quality of the cops are so low, because there is no team playing and nothing to connect the squads, they all act edgy to each other, yet they are all almost equally bad, but somehow, they do not understand it, which is weird. The squads are basically the same, I literally see no difference between them.

I'd honestly also put some blame on the group managers as well, as in my opinion, the groups must keep the interest of the players within the game, because gangs / squads get monotonous, repetitive and boring, thus when the groups are dead, the whole side they represent is dead as well. The current cops have no goals to achieve, all they do is spam their nightsticks and farm money. Woohoo, so fun!... Common sense.

Now, back to the topic.
Just like I started my post - I support the idea, as long as it's temporary. It's up to the GMs / HQ to decide if they'll allow lvl 1 squads to get a spawn or to reduce the time from 1 month to 2 weeks, I'm okay with both, but once again, if they are temporary, till the cop side gets better, as honestly, 10-15 official squad members on during the peaks is a dead cop side in my opinion. Once the number goes around 25-30 or more during peaks with fresh squads & new cops, then the old requirements can be brought back.

One last thing - people want to play the game and not to nolife it. Imagine spending months, posting activities on daily basis just to get your squad a spawn in an almost completely dead cop side. Yes, none really imagines doing it, thus the results are obvious.

I can guarantee you that a good amount of people are interested in creating a squad and actually playing as a cop, but the requirements, the dead cop side (squads and groups included) are just stopping them.

Consider all that. The temporary solution will fit the whole situation in my opinion.

[Spetnazz]

@Henry Solve problem dumb fuck?

[Franklin]

I actually couldn't believe my eyes yesterday when I saw cops and criminals working together, us telling them when we will BR so they don't log off..

[DROT]

The suggestion was implemented relatively recently, squads now get a spawn at lvl1.