Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals

[DROT]

Hello!

This is more so a question than suggestion, share how you feel concerning possibility of gang members joining Pro Cops.

It is important to understand what PC is and what possibilities the spawn realisitically brings, before jumping to any conclusions. PC is a group with primary focus on roleplay, portraying everyday policemen and initiating roleplay with criminals rather than immediately rushing for arrest. This goes for all spawns that become available to player that joins he Pro Cops group. Players using any PC spawn are obligated to attempt and roleplay with the wanted person before attempting arrest, with exception of events (sr/br/jb/turf).

What do Pro Cops have access to?

• More regular vehicles already available to trainees/state troopers.


• Nightstick, taser, shotgun, spray, similar to State Trooper - No lethal weapons and low ammo count.


• Dispatcher spawn, able to request from other cops to arrest a certain player, same function as K panel that all cops including trainees have - Can not arrest, has no weapons.


• Detective spawn, able to investigate script-spawned crime scenes - Can not arrest, has no weapons, roleplay spawn.


• Can spawn in some smaller towns.


• Dog spawn, increased running speed and bite effect slows the wanted player down, identical to rubber shotgun - Can not arrest.


• Can deploy stingers.

Overall, PC does not bring any powerful boosts to the player with exception of stingers that criminals are currently able to get access to via SAI membership. Its spawns are created to initiate or enchance roleplay situations, not to offer any real advantage to members over other players. The group fields many interesting scripts as of now unavailable to any other group/spawn, which however do not bring advantage over criminals.

What about rulebreakers?

It is widely known that PC disciplinary actions are borderline tyrannical with any sort of situation where the PC member abuses provided spawns/equipment or uses them in means not stated by PC rules, always ends with a kick or long term suspension. The only way to become member of PC is via minimum of four long weeks in SAPA with numerous tests completed, ending with another final PC test and probation period of one more month. All this taken into consideration, probability of any PC member taking the risk to try and abuse their spawn with high risk of losing it, is very, very low.
It is likely that PC is the group with lowest count of rulebreaks.

Why even think about it?

As should be evident by now, PC has access to variety to interesting roleplay-enchancing features. These features are currently available to a small number of players when taking general playerbase into consideration. Commonly we're able to see 30 cops online compared to 100 criminals. Only a few of those cops have access to PC, while the large majority of server (80%) can not even get a chance to join. Allowing gang members to take the same SAPA route and obtain PC would encourage more players to take on the roleplay of police officer. It is hard to think of a reason why players that decided to join a gang should not be able to roleplay as cops, or be limited to trainee/state trooper spawns, while PC is a group with exactly that purpose, giving players more roleplay material while offering no real advantage over the criminals. Additionally, groups like SAPA and PC itself may profit from increased activity.

Congratulations if you've made it this far, that was quite a bit of text to read!
Please have a thought about everything of the above and share your opinion.

[DROT]

@Pegasus said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

You are the one who jeopardized PC by randomly inviting people into your squad (blacklisted ones too oops), you killed the motive of PC because irrespective of the qualification of the person, you didn't care, so it is really ironic to see it coming from you.

So in one moment you're telling me that purpose of PC is for getting into squad, at another you're telling me that you never said it. Now you're again at it, just with focus on SWAT for some reason. I am killing the PC because we invite people with no PC into our squad?

We couldn't give a shit from squad perspective whether you have PC or not as it is roleplay related. You don't get qualified for our squad based on some traffic tickets roleplay sessions, you aren't considered pro just because SAPA taught you how to use left or right turnlight.

At this point I'll just stop arguing with you since you insist on keeping it personal and hostile. For the last time, this is not a vote, you are not here to decide what is or isn't going to happen. It is a question. If this is the sort of reaction you have every time someone asks a question you don't personally like, boy you're into an interesting life. And I'll take no part of it.

Regardless, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[Pegasus]

@DROT said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Pegasus said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

You are the one who jeopardized PC by randomly inviting people into your squad (blacklisted ones too oops), you killed the motive of PC because irrespective of the qualification of the person, you didn't care, so it is really ironic to see it coming from you.

So in one moment you're telling me that purpose of PC is for getting into squad, at another you're telling me that you never said it. Now you're again at it, just with focus on SWAT for some reason. I am killing the PC because we invite people with no PC into our squad?

We couldn't give a shit from squad perspective whether you have PC or not as it is roleplay related. You don't get qualified for our squad based on some traffic tickets roleplay sessions, you aren't considered pro just because SAPA taught you how to use left or right turnlight.

At this point I'll just stop arguing with you since you insist on keeping it personal and hostile. For the last time, this is not a vote, you are not here to decide what is or isn't going to happen. It is a question. If this is the sort of reaction you have every time someone asks a question you don't personally like, boy you're into an interesting life. And I'll take no part of it.

Regardless, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

You surprise me. I could argue with a wall and it would provide me more logical points than you can. Do you read what you type or just go swinging at the keyboard? Talking about life, thank god I have one ;)

[Howlze]

I don't really understand this suggestion - might just be me.

You talk a lot about roleplaying in your topic, but, what I don't get is - isn't the part of roleplaying to be as realistic as possible? Acting in a specific character - sticking to this character. Having criminals being able to spawn as a - not just police officer - but a Professional Police Officer, in my book, doesn't make any sense.

Furthermore, you keep hinting towards the fact, that PC doesn't actually bring any major advantages from being a cop/trainee - so why is it neccessary for them to be ProCops, if it does not give them any advantage in regards to a trainee?

Quoting you:

Commonly we're able to see 30 cops online compared to 100 criminals.

Isn't this realistic? You rarely see a larger number of cops compared to criminals in real life. The major of the population is civilians, meanwhile you have a police force - that's sure, large in some areas - but it never outnumbers the civilian/criminal population.
Being a cop isn't meant to be easy - it's the most dangerous job in the world, and allowing criminals who specifically chose their role as a criminal, to have access to a large quantity of activities on the server, and also a way to make a lot of money in a small amount of time.

My two cents are briefly said: I don't see why any criminal should be allowed a ProCop diploma - already having access to the trainee spawn should be more than enough. There's - as you said yourself - not a lot of difference nor advantage in being a ProCop over being a trainee. You have all the same weapons; sure, you don't spawn with a shotgun - but this is extremely cheap in the weapon stores.

You can't compare being a civilian with a criminal record being a soldier (as seen a lot in real life), to being an officer, who is hired to obey and enforce laws specifically designed to minimize the criminal rate. Having a felon as a cop is silly.

Now, a cop being a member of CLO, which is a criminal organisation wouldn't even be out of reach while working actively as a police officer isn't unrealistic in my book. A lot of cops are corrupt and are 'secretly' criminal behind the public eye, however, they haven't been caught, and therefore they are not a felon until proven guilty. However, in my opinion - if you get caught doing something illegal when you are playing your roleplay character as a CLO member, you should be evicted from the ProCop team, as you are now a registered felon.

This is just my opinion.

[DROT]

@Howlze said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

You talk a lot about roleplaying in your topic, but, what I don't get is - isn't the part of roleplaying to be as realistic as possible? Acting in a specific character - sticking to this character. Having criminals being able to spawn as a - not just police officer - but a Professional Police Officer, in my book, doesn't make any sense.

You're suggesting that people only roleplay as one character, that is not true. If it were the case however, let's call your character John Doe; he is an average policeman. At some point you get access to DE spawn. Does that mean that John Doe is now also a policeman and a serving member of the army? You decided to stay in SAPA after getting PC, so John Doe is also an instructor. Eventually you join SWAT, then some groups follow; HLS, ALT, Centrino, SA News and SAP.

At this point, John Doe is a certified police officer that actively serves as infantry in the army, in the meantime he teaches cadets at the police academy. On the side he is also a Homeland Security director, who is also a SWAT recruit. Let's not forget that he also drives trucks and taxi for a living, but only after he comes home from his work as a news reporter. Oh yes, secretly he is a pirate.

This isn't realistic, it is the exact opposite. That is why people have several characters, John Doe is a police officer, Jim Jimmy is a soldier, Dick Longbottom is the Homeland Security director, they aren't all the same person, they are just being played by the same player.

From roleplay perspective alone, there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to make a character that is a gang member, while making another that is a police officer. You're not restricted to roleplaying only one character, all it takes is to change your name and think of a backstory.

Mind, this relates only to your point concerning roleplay and realism, gameplay balance is entirely different topic.

[Predator]

You already showed us your experience in SWAT.
Don't touch PC, it's cool as it is.
the whole community voted, the majority voted "NO" therefore consider this case closed.
i suggest locking this topic and moving it to trash @SAES-Member .

[Absent]

RP in SAES is dead since years. The players who can actually roleplay can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Trust me @Ardron, it isn't that hard to join PC, so I don't really believe only " the best roleplayers " will join PC if they ever get that option.

[ILLUSION]

@Absent said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

RP in SAES is dead since years. The players who can actually roleplay can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Trust me @Ardron, it isn't that hard to join PC, so I don't really believe only " the best roleplayers " will join PC if they ever get that option.

What do you think RP is?

RP is not something that can be only made by people who come together to do some anims and /me dialogues. A criminal doing storerobs or a cop bribing a criminal, or a trucker doing deliveries, these are all RPs. RP cannot be dead as long as SAES:RPG's structure stays like this. This server is all about RP. If you want to see how a server without RP looks like, join MTA Pubg or Race servers. When you come to SAES:RPG, no matter what you do is RP to earn money or smth.

So, don't think RP is only this:

/talk
/me gets license and ID.
goes to police vehicle /wash
comes back to criminal /talk
/me hands the ID

[blizzard]

@Howlze SAES allows multiple RP characters at the same time, that's why we can easily switch from a criminal spawn to a police spawn or civilian spawn whenever we please, because it allows multiple RP characters. Other strict RP servers don't do that and force you to just take a role, and like you mentioned "Acti in a specific character - sticking to this character. ", and if you want to switch sides you have to do so in a RP way, like commit a crime as a police officer and drop the job, forever. But this is not how SAES works

Not really related to the topic discussion but I just wanted to point that out.

[Absent]

@ILLUSION said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Absent said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

RP in SAES is dead since years. The players who can actually roleplay can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Trust me @Ardron, it isn't that hard to join PC, so I don't really believe only " the best roleplayers " will join PC if they ever get that option.

What do you think RP is?

RP is not something that can be only made by people who come together to do some anims and /me dialogues. A criminal doing storerobs or a cop bribing a criminal, or a trucker doing deliveries, these are all RPs. RP cannot be dead as long as SAES:RPG's structure stays like this. This server is all about RP. If you want to see how a server without RP looks like, join MTA Pubg or Race servers. When you come to SAES:RPG, no matter what you do is RP to earn money or smth.

So, don't think RP is only this:

/talk
/me gets license and ID.
goes to police vehicle /wash
comes back to criminal /talk
/me hands the ID

I have played in such non-RP servers, but I've also played in strict RP servers. SAES isn't a RP server, It is RPG server and trust me, there is difference between arresting criminals or killing cops just like that and roleplaying that thing. That's why that what you are talking about isn't real roleplay. Also, by saying this, you are telling me that everyone should be PC, because everyone can arrest criminals, right? Let's free invite everyone to PC, it's roleplay after all.

[ILLUSION]

@Absent said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@ILLUSION said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Absent said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

RP in SAES is dead since years. The players who can actually roleplay can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Trust me @Ardron, it isn't that hard to join PC, so I don't really believe only " the best roleplayers " will join PC if they ever get that option.

What do you think RP is?

RP is not something that can be only made by people who come together to do some anims and /me dialogues. A criminal doing storerobs or a cop bribing a criminal, or a trucker doing deliveries, these are all RPs. RP cannot be dead as long as SAES:RPG's structure stays like this. This server is all about RP. If you want to see how a server without RP looks like, join MTA Pubg or Race servers. When you come to SAES:RPG, no matter what you do is RP to earn money or smth.

So, don't think RP is only this:

/talk
/me gets license and ID.
goes to police vehicle /wash
comes back to criminal /talk
/me hands the ID

I have played in such non-RP servers, but I've also played in strict RP servers. SAES isn't a RP server, It is RPG server and trust me, there is difference between arresting criminals or killing cops just like that and roleplaying that thing. That's why that what you are talking about isn't real roleplay. Also, by saying this, you are telling me that everyone should be PC, because everyone can arrest criminals, right? Let's free invite everyone to PC, it's roleplay after all.

I actually voted no in this poll I dont know how you did deduct that.

[vektor]

To be honest i was the one who is against this suggestion for years. The knowledge of being cop lead you into become procop and for that you need to be experienced in cop side. You cant get it while playing in crim side. Also another point is discipline.You cant get it while playing in crim side. The rules here cops have to keep is so strict. Ofcourse crim side has alot of rules too but not the same as the cops have to keep. But since SAPA become group, you can get that experience and discipline. The instructors in SAPA already skilled enough to see you are ready to be part of procops. So i dont see any point to dont let crims in procops.

Also joshbond has a good point. Its known procops has a potential to keep players in cop side but not at all. Whoever likes to play as cop can keep playing without pc diploma. As i can see most of the new squad members dont have diploma. I dont really think it will effect the cop side that badly.

[Skerdi]

@DROT said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Howlze said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

You talk a lot about roleplaying in your topic, but, what I don't get is - isn't the part of roleplaying to be as realistic as possible? Acting in a specific character - sticking to this character. Having criminals being able to spawn as a - not just police officer - but a Professional Police Officer, in my book, doesn't make any sense.

You're suggesting that people only roleplay as one character, that is not true. If it were the case however, let's call your character John Doe; he is an average policeman. At some point you get access to DE spawn. Does that mean that John Doe is now also a policeman and a serving member of the army? You decided to stay in SAPA after getting PC, so John Doe is also an instructor. Eventually you join SWAT, then some groups follow; HLS, ALT, Centrino, SA News and SAP.

At this point, John Doe is a certified police officer that actively serves as infantry in the army, in the meantime he teaches cadets at the police academy. On the side he is also a Homeland Security director, who is also a SWAT recruit. Let's not forget that he also drives trucks and taxi for a living, but only after he comes home from his work as a news reporter. Oh yes, secretly he is a pirate.

This isn't realistic, it is the exact opposite. That is why people have several characters, John Doe is a police officer, Jim Jimmy is a soldier, Dick Longbottom is the Homeland Security director, they aren't all the same person, they are just being played by the same player.

From roleplay perspective alone, there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to make a character that is a gang member, while making another that is a police officer. You're not restricted to roleplaying only one character, all it takes is to change your name and think of a backstory.

Mind, this relates only to your point concerning roleplay and realism, gameplay balance is entirely different topic.

I dont understand why this reply gets so much hate, it is correct, this is how saes works, you build multiple characters

[Filex]

Lets make Pro Criminals group for criminals and add some cool spawns bois

[Shadro]

@Filex Pro cop spawn is for cops who got good RP skills and they must offer RP before attempting to arrest. Do you think that criminals would RP? I don't think so. Also you already got different spawns in criminal class, whereas cops can only spawn as trainee/trooper if they don't have access to the PC spawn.

[Skerdi]

@Shadro said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Filex Pro cop spawn is for cops who got good RP skills and they must offer RP before attempting to arrest. Do you think that criminals would RP? I don't think so. Also you already got different spawns in criminal class, whereas cops can only spawn as trainee/trooper if they don't have access to the PC spawn.

What different spawns, drug dealer, transporter, since you can spawn as them too, this is off topic

[Deu]

If this idea was ever to put into practice, there would be a small amount of criminals who would spend 4 weeks probation time in order to gain a PC diploma which gives you access to roleplay classes.

The roleplay classes such as detective, dispatcher are rarely used by the PC members because they have a squad spawn to arrest the criminals at sight which is the reason why PC isn't much of a big deal nowadays. I think the main reason is that SAES has become a server where everyone picks up a gun and shoots each other for the fun of it. I would rather call it a freeroam server than calling it a RPG server.

The main question is when your PC members rarely use the PC spawn itself, how are you gonna get the criminals(who are so eager to DM cops in front of jail and turf all day long shooting each other to gain control over the areas) to roleplay using the PC roleplay classes? As far as I'm aware they can use the state trooper and trainee spawns to arrest people, what's the difference?

I'm not against the idea itself but on a server where you don't have any roleplay and different roleplay characters (f.e I would be Nathan Martin in CLO and I would have a different character named George Sink in PC) I don't think it would work.