Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals

[DROT]

Hello!

This is more so a question than suggestion, share how you feel concerning possibility of gang members joining Pro Cops.

It is important to understand what PC is and what possibilities the spawn realisitically brings, before jumping to any conclusions. PC is a group with primary focus on roleplay, portraying everyday policemen and initiating roleplay with criminals rather than immediately rushing for arrest. This goes for all spawns that become available to player that joins he Pro Cops group. Players using any PC spawn are obligated to attempt and roleplay with the wanted person before attempting arrest, with exception of events (sr/br/jb/turf).

What do Pro Cops have access to?

• More regular vehicles already available to trainees/state troopers.


• Nightstick, taser, shotgun, spray, similar to State Trooper - No lethal weapons and low ammo count.


• Dispatcher spawn, able to request from other cops to arrest a certain player, same function as K panel that all cops including trainees have - Can not arrest, has no weapons.


• Detective spawn, able to investigate script-spawned crime scenes - Can not arrest, has no weapons, roleplay spawn.


• Can spawn in some smaller towns.


• Dog spawn, increased running speed and bite effect slows the wanted player down, identical to rubber shotgun - Can not arrest.


• Can deploy stingers.

Overall, PC does not bring any powerful boosts to the player with exception of stingers that criminals are currently able to get access to via SAI membership. Its spawns are created to initiate or enchance roleplay situations, not to offer any real advantage to members over other players. The group fields many interesting scripts as of now unavailable to any other group/spawn, which however do not bring advantage over criminals.

What about rulebreakers?

It is widely known that PC disciplinary actions are borderline tyrannical with any sort of situation where the PC member abuses provided spawns/equipment or uses them in means not stated by PC rules, always ends with a kick or long term suspension. The only way to become member of PC is via minimum of four long weeks in SAPA with numerous tests completed, ending with another final PC test and probation period of one more month. All this taken into consideration, probability of any PC member taking the risk to try and abuse their spawn with high risk of losing it, is very, very low.
It is likely that PC is the group with lowest count of rulebreaks.

Why even think about it?

As should be evident by now, PC has access to variety to interesting roleplay-enchancing features. These features are currently available to a small number of players when taking general playerbase into consideration. Commonly we're able to see 30 cops online compared to 100 criminals. Only a few of those cops have access to PC, while the large majority of server (80%) can not even get a chance to join. Allowing gang members to take the same SAPA route and obtain PC would encourage more players to take on the roleplay of police officer. It is hard to think of a reason why players that decided to join a gang should not be able to roleplay as cops, or be limited to trainee/state trooper spawns, while PC is a group with exactly that purpose, giving players more roleplay material while offering no real advantage over the criminals. Additionally, groups like SAPA and PC itself may profit from increased activity.

Congratulations if you've made it this far, that was quite a bit of text to read!
Please have a thought about everything of the above and share your opinion.

[Pera98]

@DROT said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Pera98 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

Explain to me please, as if i was the dumbest person on SAES (which im starting to think that i might just be) how does this bring any balance on CrimVCop issue?

1. Player gets chance to become PC


2. Player must spend a month in SAPA (increased cop activity)


3. If player is skilled enough to complete same program that cops must to get PC (SAPA, PC test), they get PC.


4. To use any perks of Pro Cop group, player must be spawned on cop team. (increased cop acitivtiy x2)


5. Player uses PC = Player is spawned cop = More players spawned cop

I made it as simple as I could for you.

Thanks.
1-Why should they? It's a group to exalt a policeman, to give them a bit more tools to make their job easier (guess what, SAI also has those exact tools besides /barrier [much wow] and is open for any player cop,crim,civil,gay,bisexual,assexual,whatever) and respect during patrols for example.
2-I guess that's why Tut voted Yes, might need some more cadets to overwhelm the few active instructors with work
3-How is this related to CopsVCrims? ProCop is about skills? Exactly, but among cops, not among the whole server, to differ who's good and who's not within law enforcement
4-Already answered, those perks can be access by other ways.
5-Using a Trainee/Trooper or SAI spawn will have the same effect.

PS: @Thing dumb questions get dumb answers ;) next time read the whole thread before posting something that has already been clarified

[Garcia1999]

this suggestion look like a prison warden trainee working hard his ass to be part of the outbreak group

[Skerdi]

Btw isnt this to be discussed by sapd hq? And our vote here looks like doesn't matter. Why just not suggest it to sapd and sapa hq and let them choose. Since we know, crims will vote yes, cops will vote no, and this topic will go through rage and repetitive opinions again and again. @Tut-Greco you as sapd hq, and sapa leader, cant you bring this idea with other sapd membership and hq for a discussion instead of giving ur opinion here? In the end they choose since we all know where this topic is going.

[DROT]

@Skerdi said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

Btw isnt this to be discussed by sapd hq? And our vote here looks like doesn't matter. Why just not suggest it to sapd and sapa hq and let them choose. Since we know, crims will vote yes, cops will vote no, and this topic will go through rage and repetitive opinions again and again. @Tut-Greco

This is not a vote, it's an inquiry. We are asking you what your opinions are on the subject.

[Sawos]

What about DE for CLO ??
Its a big NO

[Filex]

Teddy4SAES_HQ and fairness shall happen :harriot:

[Reggi]

@Tut-Greco said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Reggi said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:
As far as I know Crim's cant join SAPA either but that's tuts choice so i don't blame him or use it in an argument.

ive fought and lost hundreds of cases to allow gangs joining sapa

Ah didn't know that.

[Reggi]

And I love how cops keep bring up CLO like criminals can just walk in there and Spawn CLO when they want. Some of you guys are so entitled to not sharing PC with criminals (Who then wouldn't be criminals in that spawn) its crazy.. Its a game.. That has many roles and some as detective that i didn't know about and don't see any of your ProCops using. Along with the never used police dog and the PC rps that never happen. Reading all the comments on this post and it reminds me of this:
:::

:::

[Pera98]

@Reggi said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

That has many roles and some as detective that i didn't know about and don't see any of your ProCops using. Along with the never used police dog and the PC rps that never happen.

Yes, doesn't surprise me that you don't see anyone using Detective spawn since it's a roleplay spawn, meant for roleplay only, has no perks whatsoever, not even able to arrest, not that much useful so not that much used. Plus you're once again stating a "perk" that SAI has aswell (doggy). Why are you guys so fast in trying to get your hands into something (PC) when u have something just alike (SAI) that NEEDS activity (instead of PC which has no deal with activity whatsoever). And about not seeing PC RPs happen, blame the players not the group pal.

[Reggi]

@Pera98 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Reggi said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

That has many roles and some as detective that i didn't know about and don't see any of your ProCops using. Along with the never used police dog and the PC rps that never happen.

Yes, doesn't surprise me that you don't see anyone using Detective spawn since it's a roleplay spawn, meant for roleplay only, has no perks whatsoever, not even able to arrest, not that much useful so not that much used. Plus you're once again stating a "perk" that SAI has aswell (doggy). Why are you guys so fast in trying to get something else to get your hands into (PC) when u have something just alike (SAI) that NEEDS activity (instead of PC which has no deal with activity whatsoever). And about not seeing PC RPs happen, blame the players not the group pal.

I'm actually into roleplays on SAES (big wow) which is why i'm currently applying for SAI. And noone is being fast to get anything.. If you didn't notice @DROT Who's a and a CS member suggested it because he thinks it would be good for the community. So your admitting to blame the players (ProCops) for not doing anything on the spawn or using it for its intended roleplay use but your so against getting new people in there they will actually use it? So cops get bored of rping and barely using the spawn as its intended so it should rot like most groups and die off other then accepting criminals.

[Pegasus]

ProCop Diploma is identified as a "Diploma" for a reason. It was always intended to certify that a police trainee was eligible and had the required skills to join a squad. There was a reason people joined SAPA to attain their PC Diplomas and then move on to join an established squad. It's main purpose was never RPing, but to show that a person was familiar with the law enforcement side and had enough experience before they joined a squad.

[Skerdi]

For players that are bringing clo here, crims arent allowed to join hls either

[Pegasus]

@DROT said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Pera98 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

Explain to me please, as if i was the dumbest person on SAES (which im starting to think that i might just be) how does this bring any balance on CrimVCop issue?

1. Player gets chance to become PC


2. Player must spend a month in SAPA (increased cop activity)


3. If player is skilled enough to complete same program that cops must to get PC (SAPA, PC test), they get PC.


4. To use any perks of Pro Cop group, player must be spawned on cop team. (increased cop acitivtiy x2)


5. Player uses PC = Player is spawned cop = More players spawned cop

I made it as simple as I could for you.

It is sad to see that the leader of a squad completely misses the point of PC diploma. It was NEVER intended for ALL players, only for COPS that were willing to get certified for a better chance in a squad. People joined SAPA only because they either wanted to become an instructor or to move on to an elite squad(lvl 4,5).
But you know what? This isn't the exact problem anymore. The reason the PC activity dropped is because people started getting free invites into squads, no application, no tests, heck squads even OMIT whether the guy has a PC diploma or not. This leads to ignoring the exact point of what PC was intended to do, and hence, less activity as PC.

[Pegasus]

@Skerdi said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

For players that are bringing clo here, crims arent allowed to join hls either

You'd be better off not arguing about this because you have no valid point.
HLS is the only group criminals aren't allowed to join, want me to name the groups cops aren't allowed to join?

[Pitty]

@Pegasus said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Skerdi said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

For players that are bringing clo here, crims arent allowed to join hls either

You'd be better off not arguing about this because you have no valid point.
HLS is the only group criminals aren't allowed to join, want me to name the groups cops aren't allowed to join?

oh yes please, i lost track of it!

[Ardron]

As a squad leader, might come as a surprise even to my fellow squad mates but, I support this idea. Why? It is a roleplay group, it's not like you will see entire gangs joining in since thw entry process is very selective and not that easy to pass so still, only the best RP'ers should be able to join. Judging on my SAi experience too, sometimes I noticed that gang members in sai have a higher 'will' to actually RP as a cop when spawned, and I believe that is also cause of the fact that it is a different role than their all day gang spawn. While a squad member rarely even spawns pc except to attend a jb or being in an unofficial squad.

[Joshbond]

@Pegasus said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@DROT said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Pera98 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

Explain to me please, as if i was the dumbest person on SAES (which im starting to think that i might just be) how does this bring any balance on CrimVCop issue?

1. Player gets chance to become PC


2. Player must spend a month in SAPA (increased cop activity)


3. If player is skilled enough to complete same program that cops must to get PC (SAPA, PC test), they get PC.


4. To use any perks of Pro Cop group, player must be spawned on cop team. (increased cop acitivtiy x2)


5. Player uses PC = Player is spawned cop = More players spawned cop

I made it as simple as I could for you.

It is sad to see that the leader of a squad completely misses the point of PC diploma. It was NEVER intended for ALL players, only for COPS that were willing to get certified for a better chance in a squad. People joined SAPA only because they either wanted to become an instructor or to move on to an elite squad(lvl 4,5).
But you know what? This isn't the exact problem anymore. The reason the PC activity dropped is because people started getting free invites into squads, no application, no tests, heck squads even OMIT whether the guy has a PC diploma or not. This leads to ignoring the exact point of what PC was intended to do, and hence, less activity as PC.

@Pegasus you are 100% right there, the true meaning of sapa/PC diploma has been lost. Like before, if you wanted to join any senior squad, you had to go through sapa to get your pc diploma or if experienced enough join a senior squad while doing external tests with sapa for PC.

I think this old system needs to come back to be honest and for cops only.

[Thing]

@Pera98 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@DROT said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

@Pera98 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

Explain to me please, as if i was the dumbest person on SAES (which im starting to think that i might just be) how does this bring any balance on CrimVCop issue?

1. Player gets chance to become PC


2. Player must spend a month in SAPA (increased cop activity)


3. If player is skilled enough to complete same program that cops must to get PC (SAPA, PC test), they get PC.


4. To use any perks of Pro Cop group, player must be spawned on cop team. (increased cop acitivtiy x2)


5. Player uses PC = Player is spawned cop = More players spawned cop

I made it as simple as I could for you.

Thanks.
1-Why should they? It's a group to exalt a policeman, to give them a bit more tools to make their job easier (guess what, SAI also has those exact tools besides /barrier [much wow] and is open for any player cop,crim,civil,gay,bisexual,assexual,whatever) and respect during patrols for example.
2-I guess that's why Tut voted Yes, might need some more cadets to overwhelm the few active instructors with work
3-How is this related to CopsVCrims? ProCop is about skills? Exactly, but among cops, not among the whole server, to differ who's good and who's not within law enforcement
4-Already answered, those perks can be access by other ways.
5-Using a Trainee/Trooper or SAI spawn will have the same effect.

PS: @Thing dumb questions get dumb answers ;) next time read the whole thread before posting something that has already been clarified

If the comment would actually have been dumb, I would agree.

[Paradox]

Allow criminals use police cars in PDs while they are not spawned cop, remove all cops from police , remove jailbreak alert , remove br alert, cops cant stop SRs anymore , allow crims join hls too. Lets vote for those too

[Markus]

Just use the SAI spawn as a criminal when you want to RP as an Officer

PC will completely lose its meaning if it would be allowed for criminals since it clearly divides the cops who have the diploma and who dont and quite often, the PC spawn is not even used for RP

[Bone]

...Something with integrity and logical thinking...

[DROT]

@Pegasus said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

It is sad to see that the leader of a squad completely misses the point of PC diploma. It was NEVER intended for ALL players, only for COPS that were willing to get certified for a better chance in a squad. People joined SAPA only because they either wanted to become an instructor or to move on to an elite squad(lvl 4,5).

Speaking of missing the point, you just aced it. If this was the case and PC existed only to easily join a squad or an organization, we may delete the PC spawn entirely and just give people a forum title instead.

PC has dozen of scripts made specifically for cop roleplay, not for you to get into a squad easier.

[Bangas]

@Garcia1999 said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

criminals can join DE,criminals can lead SA government,criminals can join SAI,criminals can become procop as Mr.DROT said
but cops can't join CeM , cops can't join CLO, cops can't join OB ... that's why criminals activity are more higher and it's will be always like that ..

well said garcia -1 as well

[Joshbond]

@DROT the PC diploma was to prove that you have met the requirements of the SAPD to be a good office who can roleplay, hence why squads would let you join them once you got the Diploma. The PC spawn then opened up more roleplay options for cops who have achieved the diploma as they are trusted to perform roleplay correctly and efficently while using the PC spawns and scripts.

PC is honestly like one of the most important thing that mostly every cop aims to get due to its importance in the police side of the server. Giving this to gang members would take away that importance to squad members and why bother staying in a squad when you can join a gang and get ALOT more options for joining varied groups and still play as a cop...

[DROT]

@Joshbond said in Pro Cop (PC) for Criminals:

why bother staying in a squad when you can join a gang and get ALOT more options for joining varied groups and still play as a cop...

You are saying this as if PC offers the same that squads do. Spawn-wise, PC is a State Trooper in a prettier skin with access to roleplay scripts. Do you see people leaving their squad to join a gang because they can spawn as State Trooper? Or do you presume that squad members only stay in their squad because of PC membership? Common practice is getting PC only to improve chances to join a squad.