[BANK ROBS] What would you like to see added/changed/removed etc

[Brophy]

As the title says, what would you like to see added/changed/removed etc.

We can then poll the most popular suggestions to the community.

[Crank]

4 hours ago, Blue said:

I play as cop for 2 years so my suggestions will be based on a cop POV don't cri criminals

• The requirement for the number of squad members or players needed to initiate a bank robbery has been reduced from 10 to 5. I recommend to revert this change back to the original requirement of 10. The server's overall condition has improved, and while it's important to maintain a balance that satisfies criminals but you should also consider the cops.

• It's been a long time since the last HLS recruitment, so it might be a good idea to initiate a new one (you can force them like you did with DE/CLO/LWS :mclaugh:). You may consider allowing them to participate in more bank robberies, not limited to just LV/SF, to determine success rates in bank robberies, you can review rates as you did before. Currently, the group seems inactive, with no one actively attending bank robberies. It appears that their involvement is limited to completing two patrols for a mere five minutes each month.

•Vending machines, those located near banks should be protected in some way. The presence of 4525423451322346 defenders outside the bank makes it impossible for cops who need to access the vending machines for energy drinks. Criminals, on the other hand can freely sell drugs to each other, a large number of criminals spam combat shotguns in the narrow hallways makes it nearly impossible to navigate through without enery drink. My alternative suggestion would be allowing the medic units of squads to sell boost injections, which would provide a legal alternative to the drugs available to squads.

@JohnnyEnglish made the right step by decreasing the cop count. You are NOT going to see gangs attempt bankrobberies when the odds are not in their favour. The moment you touch the minimum cop count again (which by the way was increased because of the servers high player count) you will see no BRs whatsoever. 

Why?
Regardless of your representation of AFK cops and almost half of them being allegedly AFK, 5 skilled cops can still make the difference between a successful or a failed bankrobbery. Cops have a wide array of properties, spawns and tools (medic spawns, vending machines, HLS spawns, Squad Discord) at their disposal and with that, someone like @Troones is able to single-handedly stop a BR. You are not going to see enough defenders capable to stop an onslaught of 10 cops, especially when they have quality cops like Troones in their ranks. I know what I am talking about, since I have been a cop myself and we were practically able to stop countless badly organized bankrobberies through skill, effort, patience and information. During this time, gangs had shown even greater activity and yet, it was possible for 5 good cops to stop a BR with 25 defenders. Hell, you have a Squad Discord that informs everyone about on-going/planned BRs. This is so helpful when you know how to use it in an organized manner. Perhaps you have a skill-issue yourself on hand at the moment.

The simplest change to introduce is as @Lincoln mentioned: Remove kill arrest to compensate for the dwindling number of gang members. You get to keep your properties, which I personally think are very overpowered when you combine them with the ability to kill-arrest. With the removal of kill-arrest, remove the ability for gangs to defend from the outside, so cops have the chance to at least enter the bank.

I would not play around with the minimum cop amount simply for the fact that your numbers are way too inconsistent. You are either way too active with a ton of skilled cops available or way too dead. Or we are too dead. Gangs should have the freedom to start their bankrobberies in order to upkeep the server player count. You guys need to work on how you want to handle BRs which are started with low cop counts.

The moment you remove kill-arrest, groups like HLS also need a major rework. Even during my time, HLS leadership has straight away refused to take in any new recruits, which made it increasingly difficult to handle city banks. An extremely flawed and out-of-touch approach in my opinion. Give cops the ability to join HLS once again in a fair and consistent manner.

TL;DR:

1. Decreasing the cop count was a good decision, as it increased the number of bank robberies and interest for them.
2. Skilled cops can make a significant difference in stopping bank robberies due to their advantages in properties, spawns, tools, and Discord. 
3. Removing kill-arrest can compensate for the decrease in gang members, but also motivates them to host bank robberies with more cops present -> more bank robberies.
4. Gangs should not be allowed to defend from the outside during bank robberies, giving cops a chance to enter.
5. Inconsistent cop numbers should not be used as a reason to adjust the minimum cop count, as it affects the freedom of gangs to start bank robberies and maintain server player count.
6. HLS needs a major rework, as their current approach of refusing new recruits hampers the handling of city banks. Cops should be able to join HLS fairly and consistently.

[Lincoln]

Here are my 2 cents as someone who has played part on both sides.

Criminals hold a high standard of 8/8 and will not bother attempting a bankrob unless the odds of succeeding are in their favour resulting in the current state of few to no bankrobs. I think a big part of what caused this issue is the kill arrest - Kill arrest makes a decent cop look like 5 and having 5 of these decent cops online will quickly discourage criminals from starting a bankrob. 

Kill arrest was first added as a "trial" on 20-07-2018 and was then made permanent (?) and this was no issue up untill now - Here is why. When kill arrest was first implemented the server population was much higher and the cop to crim ratio was heavily unbalanced making the kill arrest no issue and criminals were less hesitant with starting a BR. Nowadays you'll barely find 40 gang members spawned where 10 are afk and not playing and when you look at the cop side there are at least 10 squad members actively playing and all 10 have access to kill arresting ( Now remember what I first mentioned, 1 decent cop with kill arrest will look like 5. ) and these 10 with kill arrest & respawning at properties will have the same pressure as 20 cops if not more. 

Taking the perspective of a gang member, I wouldn't find this situation favourable to me and thus will not attempt the bankrob as it will fail anyway. A possible fix would be to entirely remove kill arresting from bankrobs, at least for now where crim to cop ratio is not that crazy. - I do believe this would encourage criminals to attempt more bankrobs.

This will swing the advantage back to criminals, but hey as a cop I'd rather have bankrobs than no bankrobs at all. If you ask HLS to recruit again as Blue mentioned, this would even the odds further and have a more balancing gameplay.

Do take into consideration that what I mentioned would be a fix to the current state of the server.

[Blue]

I play as cop for 2 years so my suggestions will be based on a cop POV don't cri criminals

• The requirement for the number of squad members or players needed to initiate a bank robbery has been reduced from 10 to 5. I recommend to revert this change back to the original requirement of 10. The server's overall condition has improved, and while it's important to maintain a balance that satisfies criminals but you should also consider the cops.

• It's been a long time since the last HLS recruitment, so it might be a good idea to initiate a new one (you can force them like you did with DE/CLO/LWS :mclaugh:). You may consider allowing them to participate in more bank robberies, not limited to just LV/SF, to determine success rates in bank robberies, you can review rates as you did before. Currently, the group seems inactive, with no one actively attending bank robberies. It appears that their involvement is limited to completing two patrols for a mere five minutes each month.

•Vending machines, those located near banks should be protected in some way. The presence of 4525423451322346 defenders outside the bank makes it impossible for cops who need to access the vending machines for energy drinks. Criminals, on the other hand can freely sell drugs to each other, a large number of criminals spam combat shotguns in the narrow hallways makes it nearly impossible to navigate through without enery drink. My alternative suggestion would be allowing the medic units of squads to sell boost injections, which would provide a legal alternative to the drugs available to squads.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Blue

[Dinaz]

35 minutes ago, Blue said:

I play as cop for 2 years so my suggestions will be based on a cop POV don't cri criminals

• The requirement for the number of squad members or players needed to initiate a bank robbery has been reduced from 10 to 5. I recommend to revert this change back to the original requirement of 10. The server's overall condition has improved, and while it's important to maintain a balance that satisfies criminals but you should also consider the cops.

• It's been a long time since the last HLS recruitment, so it might be a good idea to initiate a new one (you can force them like you did with DE/CLO/LWS :mclaugh:). You may consider allowing them to participate in more bank robberies, not limited to just LV/SF, to determine success rates in bank robberies, you can review rates as you did before. Currently, the group seems inactive, with no one actively attending bank robberies. It appears that their involvement is limited to completing two patrols for a mere five minutes each month.

•Vending machines, those located near banks should be protected in some way. The presence of 4525423451322346 defenders outside the bank makes it impossible for cops who need to access the vending machines for energy drinks. Criminals, on the other hand can freely sell drugs to each other, a large number of criminals spam combat shotguns in the narrow hallways makes it nearly impossible to navigate through without enery drink. My alternative suggestion would be allowing the medic units of squads to sell boost injections, which would provide a legal alternative to the drugs available to squads.

Goodjob keep suggesting more perks while there are barely any BRs anymore. 

Since the last few weeks we only BR for the fun and it had proven hiw difficult it is just by having 5 cops attend the BR, let alone HLS. HLS's purpose should be neutralized already since crime rate has decreased by a huge amount. In the latest BRs we barely had 15  defenders and you wanna make it 15 vs 10? 

Also city banks were the easiest to BR on but since everytime you BR there has to be atleast one active HLS, that did not seem like an option. 

Options are simple, either stop HLS from attending BRs or remove kill-arrest since it's very op against the average defence count. You can even do the math and conclude yourselves

[Marko.]

Hear me out on this suggestion and think it through before u start attacking me cuz it's sure as hell gonna sound so fuckin stupid. 

Removing kill-arrest is gonna break the cop side and the whole feedback thing you guys doing rn is to try and balance out the cop-crim, so if that actually got implemented and kill-arrest got removed, then I am afraid the balance will already be fucked.
It was already added for a reason and that reason was that there is no possible way of timing a rush between all cops on team chat to go in swinging our batons and praying to arrest the 200+ ping defenders or trying to kill them all and they respawn outside keeping the loop on and on. Ye kill arrest was introduced when the server had a minimum of 150 to 200 players a day and now it's from 70 to 120 max but still removing kill arrest won't help.

Now, the groups we hold recruitments for and train new members and all that bullshit either in DE or in CLO .. for what reason? DE can't respond unless CLO is spotted, and CLO can't attend unless the gang hosting the BR call them. And we all know the gang won't call CLO unless they start failing and request backup but why not from the start? I mean special groups for what reason? DE literally can't do shit without CLO which kills the gameplay for them and CLO lately is not that active cuz of the whole cop-crim side unbalance.

Suggestion as follows: 
Logically speaking, you can't prepare and plan to rob a bank without body armor right? So as bunny said above, an armory room (which btw the current bank map already has) with 100% armor pickup, and 100% HP pickup that spawns from time to time (preferably for a short time). That means crims will have access to healing, drugs, weapons, and armor in BRs.
Why did I mention DE and CLO? well if that's gonna happen, then give me one good reason both groups won't have the liberty of responding to BRs. Crims already have armor, CLO already has armor and duals and now cops, they won't be able to pick up the armor and HP but they will have DE helping, kill arrest and the current server ratio of cops > crims will help, and HLS which I doubt will be of any use since 1- they are dead. 2- 99.9% of HLS members are DE.
That will not just help crims imo but will also give a reason for people to start looking forward to the groups we call special.

Another suggestion, move the vending machine inside the bank's main lobby, not sure if that's even possible or not but if all that I mentioned above happened, I see no reason to keep the fight outside. Or keep it outside but don't allow defending from roofs as it's just so fuckin stupid, instead just increase the BR timing, more safes, or something like that instead of just buying timing for crackers. 

About the BR mapping, that shit got changed more times than Bone mapping the fuckin jail and reverting it back to the current one. Stop putting the blame on the mapping cuz it's not the main issue. The whole issue u failing BRs is cuz kill arrest is fucking u up and u die so quickly while being outnumbered by cops nowadays before when cops were like 10 to 60, you had no issues with 8/8.

[Blue]

After reading everyone's input, it appears that we have reached a consensus on the following points:

• Remove kill arrests inside banks.
• Disallow gangs from defending outside the banks.
• Implement changes to  HLS 

I also suggest disallowing bribing before BRs start. I mean we already know there will be a br when everyone is unwanted and at the same spot.

[reket]

15 hours ago, Blue said:

I also suggest disallowing bribing before BRs start. I mean we already know there will be a br when everyone is unwanted and at the same spot.

Another reason why we bribe before bank robberies is cops raiding our regrouping place and arresting us before we can even start the BR, resulting in us cancelling it. Disallowing this would even further cease crims from hosting bank robberies, -1 to this 

[mellow]

I personaly would just like to a see a different way of cracking,

as some gangs don't even have crackers they aren't even able to do bank robs

or maybe make a bank that is easy to crack for the gangs that have no crackers so they can learn from an easier bank orso

 

[Alexis]

Big no from the POV of a criminal. The state when you talk for playerbase has surely seen a tiny boost, but that has been only to cop side it is already hard enough to defend all these cops with the defend we get at bank robs and casino robs. We get barely 20 people which with 7 cops attending ( I am using an in between number from min to max cops) that is like 1 cop for 3 criminals , keep in mind that when a criminal gets arrested he spends 300 seconds in jail when the cop is getting killed he needs barely 60 to come back. And you see that is affecting gangs on doing bank robbery , yesterday we had like 90 players online which would be a crazy br marathon(you should remember from when you were thc :P) and only 1-2 happened (at least when i was online) .

 

Now about hls attending to more places could happen,I mean clo could deflect em. About hls opening recruitment also should happen because it is kinda useless having a group that is not actively recruiting people

Edited June 14, 2023 by Alexis

[Blue]

1 hour ago, Dinaz said:

Goodjob keep suggesting more perks while there are barely any BRs anymore. 

Since the last few weeks we only BR for the fun and it had proven hiw difficult it is just by having 5 cops attend the BR, let alone HLS. HLS's purpose should be neutralized already since crime rate has decreased by a huge amount. In the latest BRs we barely had 15  defenders and you wanna make it 15 vs 10? 

Also city banks were the easiest to BR on but since everytime you BR there has to be atleast one active HLS, that did not seem like an option. 

Options are simple, either stop HLS from attending BRs or remove kill-arrest since it's very op against the average defence count. You can even do the math and conclude yourselves

• BRs hardly ever happen anymore because gangs are too scared to take any risks and only want a 100% success rate. They're always playing to win and it's not fun. It's no wonder you'll soon struggle to find cops willing to engage in activities because it becomes incredibly boring for them to play in unbalanced circumstances, as it happened before.

• Cops are rarely active at the same time. For example, if there are 15 cops in the game, around 8 of them are usually either spawned as something else or simply AFK. This means that the situation would never be 30 criminals vs 15 cops, based on what I've seen during my time as a cop.

• If you find it challenging to defend against a few cops with just mindlessly criminals spraying combat shotgun and use drugs in that tiny hallway, then it's simply a matter of skill.

• If you can't defend against a single HLS with 4 cops, except for those rare moments when there's more than one HLS, then it's definitely a skill issue again. Perhaps ask CLO for help? 

• Taking away the ability to kill arrest won't solve the problem. In fact, it will likely discourage cops from playing as cops again. The reality is that criminals will always outnumber the cops, as it has been the case always.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Blue

[nCov]

1 hour ago, Dinaz said:

Goodjob keep suggesting more perks while there are barely any BRs anymore. 

Since the last few weeks we only BR for the fun and it had proven hiw difficult it is just by having 5 cops attend the BR, let alone HLS. HLS's purpose should be neutralized already since crime rate has decreased by a huge amount. In the latest BRs we barely had 15  defenders and you wanna make it 15 vs 10? 

Also city banks were the easiest to BR on but since everytime you BR there has to be atleast one active HLS, that did not seem like an option. 

Options are simple, either stop HLS from attending BRs or remove kill-arrest since it's very op against the average defence count. You can even do the math and conclude yourselves

the number of cops for Bank Robbery can stay at 5 because right now there are 3 as offical squads and 2 more will be added, the server will see +15 active cops per day, but I would like to say that bank robbery cannot be restricted on so many cops. already the criminal side has qualified even more activity within the 'newly added gangs'. u dont lose anything even if u fail, maybe the defense will defend ur bank robbery well and u will get a successful rate in a very difficult time.

 

[Ammarr]

To be honest, I would like to suggest a lot of things here and Sort any of them if you are able to.

1- Add New Rules for cops and new limit for their spawn because they're spawning at their properties near the bank they come too fast make a spawn time for them or just they spawn at hospital/base or police man
2- When We start the BR countdown starts from 20:00 , and once we crack 3rd it decreases suddenly to 4:59, So Make the Doors open faster even if 5 cops ingame only, or just make the timer begins from 7:00 once we crack 3rd so if it is slow door we can have like 5min cracking 8 safes.
3- Add new rule for cops that they are not allowed to Kamikaze while Regrouping
4- Don't Allow cops to enter banks/casino before it starts becuase, people are getting arrested before it starts so once we start they are allowed to rush and arrest us.
5- Remove Kill Arrest

Edited June 14, 2023 by Ammarr
Forgot to add somthing

[Dinaz]

6 minutes ago, Lincoln said:

Here are my 2 cents as someone who has played part on both sides.

Criminals hold a high standard of 8/8 and will not bother attempting a bankrob unless the odds of succeeding are in their favour resulting in the current state of few to no bankrobs. I think a big part of what caused this issue is the kill arrest - Kill arrest makes a decent cop look like 5 and having 5 of these decent cops online will quickly discourage criminals from starting a bankrob. 

Kill arrest was first added as a "trial" on 20-07-2018 and was then made permanent (?) and this was no issue up untill now - Here is why. When kill arrest was first implemented the server population was much higher and the cop to crim ratio was heavily unbalanced making the kill arrest no issue and criminals were less hesitant with starting a BR. Nowadays you'll barely find 40 gang members spawned where 10 are afk and not playing and when you look at the cop side there are at least 10 squad members actively playing and all 10 have access to kill arresting ( Now remember what I first mentioned, 1 decent cop with kill arrest will look like 5. ) and these 10 with kill arrest & respawning at properties will have the same pressure as 20 cops if not more. 

Taking the perspective of a gang member, I wouldn't find this situation favourable to me and thus will not attempt the bankrob as it will fail anyway. A possible fix would be to entirely remove kill arresting from bankrobs, at least for now where crim to cop ratio is not that crazy. - I do believe this would encourage criminals to attempt more bankrobs.

This will swing the advantage back to criminals, but hey as a cop I'd rather have bankrobs than no bankrobs at all. If you ask HLS to recruit again as Blue mentioned, this would even the odds further and have a more balancing gameplay.

Do take into consideration that what I mentioned would be a fix to the current state of the server.

You dropped this king 👑

It makes no sense for cops to not want criminals start BRs, you will need criminals to start activities so you can stop them, or else you will simply go AFK at store robberies that barely anyone visits them during times when criminals are mostly AFK. During BRs & CRs, you will be able to do something, play and enjoy trying to arrest criminals. That does not only create a challenge to you, it creates a challenge to both sides, we would wanna succeed and you would wanna stop the BR/CR, if you can't, it is a win win eitherways since you will get arrests and get paid anyways, it will just create a challenge for you if you were to-be rushing alone, in which is a rare thing to happen since the copcount has been constant at atleast 10 recently.

[XpooKs]

I suggest:

-reducing the Bank reset time to 1 hour or 2.

-Remove the BR limit for a gang. ( gangs should prioritize the gang who didn't BR if there are 2 regroups for two different BRs )

-( What lincoln said ).

-Improve / change City bank's interior as they are so damn unbalanced if we going to remove kill arrest. 

[NORI91]

4 hours ago, Ammarr said:

To be honest, I would like to suggest a lot of things here and Sort any of them if you are able to.

1- Add New Rules for cops and new limit for their spawn because they're spawning at their properties near the bank they come too fast make a spawn time for them or just they spawn at hospital/base or police man
2- When We start the BR countdown starts from 20:00 , and once we crack 3rd it decreases suddenly to 4:59, So Make the Doors open faster even if 5 cops ingame only, or just make the timer begins from 7:00 once we crack 3rd so if it is slow door we can have like 5min cracking 8 safes.
3- Add new rule for cops that they are not allowed to Kamikaze while Regrouping
4- Don't Allow cops to enter banks/casino before it starts becuase, people are getting arrested before it starts so once we start they are allowed to rush and arrest us.
5- Remove Kill Arrest

[Dinaz]

2 hours ago, Crank said:

Gangs should not be allowed to defend from the outside during bank robberies, giving cops a chance to enter.

If that becomes a thing, then neither should cops be able to arrest crims trying to enter the bank. That would stop both sides from being able to send false reports. Cuz at certain situations, you'd be chased by a cop and they'd run at you thinking they're chasing you and you'd start shooting and end up being reported for a silly reason unintentionally. That would simply make crims rest ease and be aware that they will not be chased outside the bank. 

There also has to be a clarification about whether cops and crims are both allowed to shoot or arrest outside once the 8 safes have been cracked or not. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Dinaz

[PhantomS]

I agree on what you mostly agreed on and I'd suggest changing the bank's interior mapping.

Improving the BR payment for criminals regardless of how many cops are in-game(randomly between 15k-30k per cracked safe).

Removing the 5 cops rule since it is pointless, if we consider 5 cops being in-game, the average are going to be AFK / Won't respond, Or perhaps lower the player count to <=20 instead of 40.

[Bunny]

I haven't been around and I don't fully know the issue right now with bank robberies, but from what I've read it seems to be kill-arresting. Now personally I don't like outright nerfs as it will hurt the other side and probably make it less fun (ramboing isn't the funniest thing personally, sometimes comes down to luck and lag) so I think adjusting or buffing the survival of criminal side could be a fair play.

There could be an armory room in the interior with around 10-20 health pick-ups that spawn every 5 minutes or so. It would be placed so only criminals can realistically access it during the bank robbery. This way criminals could fill up their health bar and increase their survival time. Obviously numbers can be changed depending what makes it balanced and fair

[Beast_]

On 16/06/2023 at 08:30, Bunny said:

There could be an armory room in the interior with around 10-20 health pick-ups that spawn every 5 minutes or so. It would be placed so only criminals can realistically access it during the bank robbery. This way criminals could fill up their health bar and increase their survival time. Obviously numbers can be changed depending what makes it balanced and fair

On the other hand, if this to be implemented then to balance this out cops can have 10-20% armor pickup at the entrance inside the bank as well.