Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no )

[Ramby]

@Marsello lets have a talk later today, maybe I can help you.

[Thing]

@blizzard said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

Your friend quit the game because he wanted to. Just because he was not good enough to join our organisation is not our responsibility.

A choice can be influenced by the things happening around you.

My point is that we should try and help those new guys, instead of kicking them out directly just because they don't understand how things work. Back when I applied to RDMC years ago i was an idiot too, but thanks to AfterLife he helped me get in, and look at me nowdays.

It is a game Thing, try not to take it so seriously. Try to help people around you instead of looking at them like "What an idiot, you did this you did that you don't deserve anything". If everyone in this community had this hostile mentality towards new players the server would be dead.

If he was your best friend, why did you not help him into TT and improve his skills then? It is not my fault that he does not meet the requirements for joining us. Also, you are making quotes about things I never said. I mean, your friend could have continued playing, it is a game right?

You are now trying to portray me as some dickhead that does not help anyone, you and I both know that is not true since I helped you a hell of a fucking lot in the past. If you actually show your thankfulness that way, I will make sure that I will never help anyone like you again.

[Thing]

@James said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

@Thing said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

@Tut-Greco said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

yes, it's a game Thing, keep that in mind. no need to set absurd high standards for people to join an organisation. we're giving him a path to follow by joining SAPA, and i'd feel guilty for seeing someone leave the server due to selfish people not letting him join anything. give people a chance to have fun instead of questioning someone who's giving another guy an opportunity

If you would be realistic and saw his applications, behaviour on the forum etc, you would have a different opinion. But it is just a game, right? Guess that every dumbass can be invited because of that. Then the organisation gets demoted for rulebreakers or bad behaviour towards the community. How do you defend that, it is just a game?

@Thing personal point of view is correct for what he said . But looking at things from a different perspective,There is more players that are willing to join criminal gangs. and not police.
most powerful criminal organizations have the opportunity to select the members.police organizations don't have the same opportunity.ICE Police invited many new players and gave them the opportunity to be in one squad.
But unfortunately ice police paid the price.Pending from rising up level, rule breakers, Bad behavior towards the community.
ICE doesn't Regret that we helped new players. it's only one game so we enjoy.
This way will have more member in our server that we play,
Thank you for your time.

I have helped a lot of new players in my time playing SAES. However, at some point you need to be critical and not allow everyone in the organisation anymore. If this guy would come to me and have a genuine conversation about wanting to have the opportunity to join ThC, I would have certainly taken it into account. However, in this case I only see begging, and for me, begging is the lowest you can go and all the respect I had for a person is lost.

[blizzard]

@Thing true, it was my mistake, I had more faith in ThC back then. If he comes back I will make sure to take him with me.

I'm not trying to portray you as a dickhead, you did help me a lot and I thank you for that, but I also can't ignore the fact that you changed alot and you became more salty and hostile towards anyone that does not like ThC, you weren't like that in the past. You don't have to threaten me like that, I just pointed a few things that you may have taken part in, altough for that case it was the entire HQ's fault not yours.

I think we are going off-topic now, I made my points so I will stick out unless you will continue replying.

[Funstein]

@Marsello meet me in-game. Maybe I can help you ;)

[Thing]

@blizzard said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

@Thing true, it was my mistake, I had more faith in ThC back then. If he comes back I will make sure to take him with me.

I'm not trying to portray you as a dickhead, you did help me a lot and I thank you for that, but I also can't ignore the fact that you changed alot and you became more salty and hostile towards anyone that does not like ThC, you weren't like that in the past. You don't have to threaten me like that, I just pointed a few things that you may have taken part in, altough for that case it was the entire HQ's fault not yours.

I think we are going off-topic now, I made my points so I will stick out unless you will continue replying.

I have not changed. If I may not defend dumb arguments being thrown at my organisation since it is ''salty'' or ''hostile'' in your eyes, you might have to learn what those terms actually mean. Also, I am not threatening you in any way, I am just saying that I do not want to help people like you who forget where they come from. What I also do not get is what you are blaming ThC for. I honestly do not even remember your friend, but one thing that I am certain of is that none of us would call him ''useless'' or whatsoever, we actually give many new players a chance to join if they show real interest and work hard for it. We are not some charity foundation that hands free spots with random invites, to learn, you should perform.

[ILLUSION]

Marsello, if you keep playing for a long time in this server, 4-5 years later if you come across to this topic you made I'm totally sure you will feel shame :D .

Because I have been there, speaking out of experience.

[Adistar]

@blizzard said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

@Thing true, it was my mistake, I had more faith in ThC back then. If he comes back I will make sure to take him with me.

I'm not trying to portray you as a dickhead, you did help me a lot and I thank you for that, but I also can't ignore the fact that you changed alot and you became more salty and hostile towards anyone that does not like ThC, you weren't like that in the past. You don't have to threaten me like that, I just pointed a few things that you may have taken part in, altough for that case it was the entire HQ's fault not yours.

I think we are going off-topic now, I made my points so I will stick out unless you will continue replying.

You went off-topic the moment you brought ThC in and tried to villify it by using your friend as example to generalize your claim against ThC, which is a logical fallacy by the way xD

We are always open for helping newbies to grow in the game to explore new opportunities of having fun and we're also doing that with many members we've got right now, but we aren't gonna brag about it so I leave it here. I don't know who he is, but I am sorry for whatever happened to your friend. If he's willing to join the game back and still interested in ThC, we're always open for new chances. If not, maybe he should join TT to stay close to you. Aye? I appreciate your beautiful intentions with Marsello by the way, but your approach could've somewhat been better, especially because you most likely misunderstood Thing's point

As for Marsello, do not give up bud. Your chance will come soon. You haven't explored all the fun aspects in saes yet, so have some patience :)

[blizzard]

@Thing I did not forget where I came from, but that doesn't mean I have to kiss your ass everytime and praise you my entire life.
To answer your other question, I don't blame ThC for anything, I just mentioned ThC-My friend thingie because it was something I took part of and it was kinda related to the topic.

@Adistar I do believe more that Thing misunderstood me, but maybe that's because I expressed myself in a more "hostile" manner, maybe I should've been more pollite. You both seem to have taken my comments towards ThC very seriously and I'm afraid I will soon be swarmed upon by a bunch of your henchmen in this topic, so if I may ask you both, we should chill out.

Again, I will highlight it once and for all, the reason I pulled ThC in this topic is because it was an event I witnessed and took part in which is similar in a way to what Marsello happened: getting denied - leaving ; and also because Thing turned pretty hostile towards Marsello. It did piss me off but then again both of you were true, I should've took him with me instead of sending him to you.

[BusterMcBadass]

Its true that requirements must be met to be able to join an organization, but we cant just shit on everybody like this. The guy did give a shit, if he didnt he wouldnt have posted anything.

Obviously, nobody has to accept him anywhere but your opinion is still your opinion. He has all the right to play in the server as long as he doesnt break any rules and nobody has the right to tell him he doesnt belong here if hes having fun. Besides, this behaviour means a lot of things, such as the server not being friendly enough for new players and that the people maybe should be a bit more forgiving.

Everybody starts somewhere guys, lets give him a hand instead of pushing him down!

Also, @Tut-Greco that is really nice of you to help the guy.

@Marsello If you want to play you can always send me a pm, Ill try to help you the way I can.

[Adistar]

@blizzard said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

@Thing I did not forget where I came from, but that doesn't mean I have to kiss your ass everytime and praise you my entire life.
To answer your other question, I don't blame ThC for anything, I just mentioned ThC-My friend thingie because it was something I took part of and it was kinda related to the topic.

@Adistar I do believe more that Thing misunderstood me, but maybe that's because I expressed myself in a more "hostile" manner, maybe I should've been more pollite. You both seem to have taken my comments towards ThC very seriously , so if I may ask you both, we should chill out.

Again, I will highlight it once and for all, the reason I pulled ThC in this topic is because it was an event I witnessed and took part in which is similar in a way to what Marsello happened: getting denied - leaving ; and also because Thing turned pretty hostile towards Marsello. It did piss me off but then again both of you were true, I should've took him with me instead of sending him to you.

Don't worry, its just a very normal conversation and I respect your opinion, but I thought it wasnt a fair reasoning to make so I wanted to respond. Haven't ever thought you came across hostile.

Your part(writing on phone and accidentally removed the part from the quote but who cares):

and I'm afraid I will soon be swarmed upon by a bunch of your henchmen in this topic

Is the reason why misunderstandings happen. This is actually prejudice and if you say stuff like this, thats when people will actually come and start attacking you. Better judge someone for the good, or do not judge. Like I said I appreciate your intentions towards Marsello so I understand your response, but your approach couldve been better

We shall stop here by the way. I just hope that with this conversation you'll change your view about our encounter with your friend :)

Edit: Also, @Nobodyknows if you have anything to say, feel free to instead of disliking literally every post coming from us. Its starting to become creepy lol

[SidePrime]

Guess what ?
I apply to SAPA 2 or 3 time i dont remember.
And wait to 2 months to can be in SAPA
Now him just need post on forum is can join
What did @Tut-Greco is yes i agree it an a good thing but where is fair ? 2 months of mine = 1 post of him.
I don't judgement this anymore just glad to see another guy being good Police and hope him will helpful.

[BusterMcBadass]

@SideSwipe Its not because people didnt do the right thing with you that the right thing cant be done at all. You are right and it is unfair to you and certainly to many people as well, and that is part of the problem.

[Thing]

discrimination has joined the chat

[Tut]

of course it is unfair for you, and to try to avoid that i have earlier today announced to my instructors that we'll reduce our standards.

[SidePrime]

I dont understand i should happy or sad
Happy for oh god Tut is awesome him helping sever as players.
Sad for what the SAPA now so easy to join
Apply for what ? You should made post about quting game. Example 10 players quting game what you gonna do ? Add them to something offical?
Why we not teach him how to play?
Ppl sometime is bad is good and they must have something different BUT THIS IS JUST A GAME SO WHERE IS FAIR? YOU JUST POSTING AND ASKING CRYING AND WILL GET IN TO OFFICAL GANH SQUAD GROUP.
Now i though i see am fool, i shouldn't apply to anything.

[Bartman]

also this pic may help about this "unfairness"
https://www.xbox-passion.de/attachments/f13/19131d1440084856-hammer-welt-gleichberechtigung-gaming-wohl-y9a5t62h.jpg

everyone was a nub at the beginn, in my first minute i joined saes, i saw an civillian with name "kenny" thought he is an bot & dmed him, later i dmed exo-c gang because they didnt invited me, but ger-c gang helped me with understanding saes & english, the same could be sapa for that guy. and as sapa is a group that is known to teach nubs, it shouldnt be anyways as hard to join it as earlyer when rulebreakers could make sapa lvl down.

but with one point i agree, no higher lvl gang/squad should invite someone just because he begs for help, instead should ask to hang with someone helpfully & teach the game.

[kipt]

@blizzard said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

Back when I applied to RDMC years ago i was an idiot too, but thanks to AfterLife he helped me get in, and look at me nowdays.

You're still an idiot ........ so what's your point again?

[BusterMcBadass]

@Bartman like for example when I ask Bart to hang with him because I want a Sandwich made with his Sandwichmaker

[Thing]

@SideSwipe said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

I dont understand i should happy or sad
Happy for oh god Tut is awesome him helping sever as players.
Sad for what the SAPA now so easy to join
Apply for what ? You should made post about quting game. Example 10 players quting game what you gonna do ? Add them to something offical?
Why we not teach him how to play?
Ppl sometime is bad is good and they must have something different BUT THIS IS JUST A GAME SO WHERE IS FAIR? YOU JUST POSTING AND ASKING CRYING AND WILL GET IN TO OFFICAL GANH SQUAD GROUP.
Now i though i see am fool, i shouldn't apply to anything.

And this ladies and gentlemen, is the example of why I do what I do. You might think it is unfair for the new players, but it is actually unfair for people like SideSwipe.

As I am a student who is doing research on a daily basis, I will present to you Trompenaars Cultural Dimensions. In this case, Universalism vs Particularism.

As you can see, Tut has applied particularism (which is very unusual for his culture). Because of that, he now has caused one of his members to become angry since he feels discriminated, which is totally understandable.
Now you may see why I do not like the actions that Tut took, even though he had good intentions.

Also, I would like to address a similar situation that reminds me of this particular one. A member named Tamsou7, who was banned after getting bullied so much that his negative emotions got the better off of him. Yes, his behaviour was bad, but that was influenced by a large number of players in this community.

Now I would like to ask you all who replied here. How is it fair to take Marsello into SAPA like that, if people were laughing at this guy for being friendly and actually asking for the opportunity to be tested? For me, that is hypocritical behaviour from most of you. Therefore, I do not see what the problem is with my approach in recruiting people in a fair way since as you can see in the quoted post above, only causes indifference, discrimination and angry members.

Instead of giving him the opportunity as well, people from higher position in popular gangs, in this case Black Bullets (Nothing personal against you guys, just using you as an example), are making fun of him with memes and impossible waiting times. This is straight up bullying and is even worse than just denying the guy and being straight-forward to them.

It is just a game right? Then why do you guys not start acting fair with everyone instead of only the people you want to. Because that is straight up hypocritical discrimination.

[Bozi]

@Tut-Greco said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

yes, it's a game Thing, keep that in mind. no need to set absurd high standards for people to join an organisation. we're giving him a path to follow by joining SAPA, and i'd feel guilty for seeing someone leave the server due to selfish people not letting him join anything. give people a chance to have fun instead of questioning someone who's giving another guy an opportunity

Did you really say that Tut?

[kipt]

@Tut-Greco said in Bad News for Marsello ( click here to read and vote i Marsello need join any gang/squad or no ):

of course it is unfair for you, and to try to avoid that i have earlier today announced to my instructors that we'll reduce our standards.

SAPA was always a learning step to not just cops but to overall players that wish to learn more about the server and how does it feel to be part of some organization with some perks. However, I always felt that the amount of bureaucratic non-sense around it is enough to demotivate new players, not just because of the application form and the english level required but also the time that requires to get actually in and to archive something.

About lowering the standards go, I don't know if I actually agree with it. Players need to learn how to conquer such things, not to just such things have a point of being locked from the general public but also for players to actually enjoy such things.

Personally, I feel that if a player gets something easy he'll get bored of it very soon. If you doubt my opinion you can easily check it by yourself. Go in-game and watch the chat. You'll see a bunch of people straight asking the full price for a sports car. If you give such players that amount of money, in less than two weeks you won't see them again. Same goes when a player joins the server and in less than a couple weeks he gets into a level 5 organization. He soon goes inactive. Of course, there are some exceptions but that's how I see things.

[SidePrime]

What you will @Thing another players be like thiss marsello guy ? Sapa will have ah.. 200+members

[Cappo]

I feel even dumber after I read this topic.

[kipt]

@Thing just don't compare CLO to either SAPA or gangs / squads. CLO was, from the start, a group to gather the 'best' criminals on the server, not to teach people how to behave in the server. And believe me, if this topic was about to 'join CLO or I'll leave the server' I would be the first posting some meme out here. CLO is CLO and that's it. Like DE is DE. You just can't compare such organizations to 'normal' ones.

Maybe Rampange's answer wasn't the best but if it wasn't Rampage would've been probably me, if not me probably someone else from CLO, if not from CLO probably someone else from the community. That's how this community works somehow, and let's face it that's how the internet works. That's no excuse, trust me. But you can not call that bullying. For me, and I might be wrong on that but again, personal opinion, bullying is going around messing with people (or kids) without a valid reason other than just boosting your self-esteem. You can't go to school in a pink dress and not expect to get moked. That's what he did there, sort of. And let's face it, that's what Marsello also did here, but he was lucky that Tut read his post and felt bad for him. Maybe if Tuts was CLO jefe he would've have invited Tamsou, who knows?

Now about Tuts inviting him to SAPA, it's between him and his HQ team. Has nothing to do with "particularism" but the fact he felt bad for the guy. Pretty sure if he keeps with his random attitude in SAPA, Tut will be the first to kick him out.

Again, I agree with Tuts decision since, and I'll repeat myself here, SAPA is a place where many people learned how to behave in the server and in the community, of course, after a long ass application process. You might argue that Tut should have pointed the 'normal' procedure but again, that's between him and the SAPA HQ team.