Remove killarrest

[Adistar]

Hello everyone,

Not long time ago, the killarrest feature was introduced to balance the crim and cop side. Seeing that the cop side is now organized and capable of stopping bankrobberies easily, I believe the killarrest feature does no longer fulfill its purpose as the crim and cop side are already balanced without the feature. For this reason I would like to suggest the removal of this feature, and of course, we can have a discussion in this topic.

[Swiggity]

If you cannot express your opinion with at least one concrete argument, I'd suggest you to not bother replying to this topic at all (including some admins who trying to provoke and start negative discussions concerning this subject)

[pub]

@Siirtuga Nah buddy, you guys have a higher ground than cops so if we keep respawning to arrest y'all it'll be hard as you got 20 crims up and few cops down. Easiest way for us is to kill y'all and when you guys come back we arrest you at a ground level.

[pub]

@Adistar y'all moan about cops not being online and shit and how they're dying once we got up y'all praying on our downfalls? Think about the outcome of this

[Groove]

I initially wanted to stay off the topic but with responses accumulating, I think bringing my waffle pov to the table might help.

I think there is a game balance issue on the story that is now obvious with copside being more than they once were. It's hard for me to say whether the kill arrest part is concerned (or more like, it won't help advance the debate) but we have clearly went from an extreme to another one which is worth looking into solutions (which doesn't have to be necesarily what was proposed here, though it remains a solution).

One of the common issues I see lately is the spam of house spawning very close of banks. The interiors we currently have at our disposal are very small and tight. Combine this with several others factors and you got a system that went from easy 8/8 for gangs to a way too complicated bankrob system. People should be able to make a bankrob fail because they played well and not because they have the closest property to the bank. I might be deviating from the topic so I will stop here. I'm up to discussion for eventual constructive brain-storming on how to balance things out in a private discussion if some of you are interested.

Either ways, I believe kill arresting should still be maintained in prison (under this interior) for game balance purpose.

@Kain said in Remove killarrest:

Fail 2 BRs > Make topic about removing the only thing that caused them to fail.

:honk:

I'm the first one to openly laugh at teddy & adistar when they fail some BRs, but here it doesn't help the topic at all as adistar isn't the first person to suggest this (the best example that comes up to my mind is @TaaviLaudur topic a few months back) and is neither the only person to consider there is a problem with kill-arresting balancing at the moment

[Joshbond]

I think kill/arrest is perfectly balanced to be honest.

What the issue is, is that there are non-police organisations turning up to the Bank to 'assist' police. Which is changing the balance/outcome of BR's. Maybe if they patrolled as police officers more, it might be different.

The only other group apart from squads which should be at a Bank robbery is DE as they are our Army. However they only show when CLO are present which keeps the balance.

Simply stop HLS turning up, make HLS members play as police officers like they should be and keep kill arrest. Problem sorted.

Also I do think that police should be able to equip some sort of armour, to only be used during bank. As due to the amount of criminals vs cops, it helps to keep balance.

[ChasinTLSN]

No, my suggestion is that wardens should spawn with a minigun in hand, too complicated to cancel the jailbreak at the current state like it is. After that someone else like Joshbond or Howlze should make a new topic to request a armor because it wont be balanced regardless of what's being made for the policing side.

[Tritosh]

From my experience in this server you can never balance both sides. Simply because cops wants to arrest criminals the easy way and criminals wants to dm a large amount of cops without being arrested. Imagine killing a HLS with 200 HP that can both arrest and kill arrest and if you kill him he will jump from his UFO which is 50 meters away from the incident top kek

[Kain]

@Adistar said in Remove killarrest:

@Kain said in Remove killarrest:

Fail 2 BRs > Make topic about removing the only thing that caused them to fail.

:honk:

Expected you were going to be your typical immature self and connect this topic to the 2 failed BRs. It has nothing to do with it. Its been an ongoing discussion between gangs for a while now and we decided to take the initiative of suggesting it. We failed due to the dog by the way.. got killed by a crim (KUCH @ILLUSION) before I could replace the cracker lol.

I would like to propose something. How about you have a normal discussion here instead, stating why you disagree with the suggestion, instead of changing the entire topic to something that has nothing to do with it, as a HQ admin is supposed to do?

@Crash no time to read your post atm will answer later oki

If you want my actual response, changes like you've suggested are required if/when we need to shift the power of balance. As it stands, the success rates of BRs have never looked more balanced than they currently do since I last released a BR stat report and it would be extremely counterproductive to do anything to change that in its current state.

It's a completely normal balanced system for gangs to fail BRs just as much as it is to succeed them, the 8/8 meta has been going on for far too long and I will do everything in my power to make sure that 8/8 success rate hangs around or just above the 50% mark.

[Nuno]

I don't agree with removing kill arrest at the prison. I like the cop side to be active so we can have more fun.

About bank robberies, in my opinion kill arrest is not fair at all.
If a cop can respawn and come to the bank again, criminals should be able to do it.

Another thing:

• We have cops who respawn criminals when we start doing a BR.


• HLS members respawn HLS, O failed a BR this week because Kain respawned as HLS and some other cop as criminal, which dropped the enough quantity of cops to be able to BR.

I won't say HLS shouldnt be able to attend BR, but at least make them count as cop !

[Ikzelf]

@Daryl said in Remove killarrest:

It's incredibly transparent that the day after ThC fail two bankrobs they started at the same time purely because criminals killed each other instead of a dog that you make a topic asking for cops to be nerfed.

You know that ain't the reason. We have had this discussion in our own private discussion so its a living issue. Your comment is BS honestly and not helping the issue at all.

[Melou]

Yes, i won't see cops playing with cs in the jail :D

[Joshbond]

@Ikzelf Typical Joe response Ikzelf, what did you expect?

Joe has recently even said himself that BR fail is now well over 50%, more like 80%. Which is not balanced.

So kain can say he will do his best to create balance to keep the meta fair, well he has unbalanced it but the other way.

As per my previous response, Police Officers and the Army should be the only people turning up to the banks.

Killarrest is not the issue.

[Daryl]

If we're being realistic these complaints are coming in because cops now have the ability, through team work and actual response times to come to bank robs.

Statistically speaking bank robs are still favoured for criminals, even since the changes to LV bank and the closure of LS bank. Once HLS stop responding to LV bank and LS bank is re-opened with the new interior, we're going to see the success rate go back up.

ThC failing 2 bank robs yesterday is what has caused this topic, you can say that this is a discussion that's been had in private for a long time and I would believe you when you say that - but what has made this be brought to the public by the leader of ThC is the fact that gang yesterday failed 2 bank robs.

They did not fail due to kill arrest - from their own admission it was a police dog running around that caused them to fail, because criminals killed eachother and actually ended up killing a ThC cracker.

If the criminals didn't do this, with the amount of defense there, including CLO, the bank rob would likely not have failed. If ThC didn't start a second BR in SF with low numbers, due to teddy and other ThC also returning to LV at the same time, the SF bank rob may have also succeeded.

In both cases there are clear and obvious reasons why the bank robs failed, that have nothing at all to do with kill arrest.

Take us back to the days before kill arrest if you can remember them, playing as a cop in a bank rob or at the jail was impossible and there was realistically no way of winning.

I think making a MASSIVE change like this, simply because the success rate is swinging to 50% (ish) is incredibly short sighted.

If anything, smaller changes should come first - why would you start out with one of the biggest changes you could possibly make without first suggesting smaller more incremental changes?

[Daryl]

@Joshbond said in Remove killarrest:

@Ikzelf Typical Joe response Ikzelf, what did you expect?

Joe has recently even said himself that BR fail is now well over 50%, more like 80%. Which is not balanced.

I never said this, this is a complete and utter fabrication.

[TaaviLaudur]

The issue probably is that the cops/DE/HLS can just come back within 20-30 sec after dying. Which makes ~10 cops feel like there are 2x or even 3x the number of cops.

[Joshbond]

@Daryl Is that right??

https://imgur.com/a/FJth68T

@Groove @Ikzelf @Adistar

[Daryl]

@Joshbond said in Remove killarrest:

@Daryl Is that right??

https://imgur.com/a/FJth68T

@Groove @Ikzelf @Adistar

Clearly imitating a criminal.

When can I have an apology for a clearly edited and taken out of context screenshot?

[Adistar]

@Daryl said in Remove killarrest:

If we're being realistic these complaints are coming in because cops now have the ability, through team work and actual response times to come to bank robs.

Statistically speaking bank robs are still favoured for criminals, even since the changes to LV bank and the closure of LS bank. Once HLS stop responding to LV bank and LS bank is re-opened with the new interior, we're going to see the success rate go back up.

ThC failing 2 bank robs yesterday is what has caused this topic, you can say that this is a discussion that's been had in private for a long time and I would believe you when you say that - but what has made this be brought to the public by the leader of ThC is the fact that gang yesterday failed 2 bank robs.

They did not fail due to kill arrest - from their own admission it was a police dog running around that caused them to fail, because criminals killed eachother and actually ended up killing a ThC cracker.

If the criminals didn't do this, with the amount of defense there, including CLO, the bank rob would likely not have failed. If ThC didn't start a second BR in SF with low numbers, due to teddy and other ThC also returning to LV at the same time, the SF bank rob may have also succeeded.

In both cases there are clear and obvious reasons why the bank robs failed, that have nothing at all to do with kill arrest.

Take us back to the days before kill arrest if you can remember them, playing as a cop in a bank rob or at the jail was impossible and there was realistically no way of winning.

I think making a MASSIVE change like this, simply because the success rate is swinging to 50% (ish) is incredibly short sighted.

If anything, smaller changes should come first - why would you start out with one of the biggest changes you could possibly make without first suggesting smaller more incremental changes?

My God. You literally got witnesses showing up and confirming what I said and you still prefer to stick to your own assumptions (changing the ENTIRE topic) even though you haven't seen our conversations nor do you have any chat snippet where I spoke about the 2 brs. Believe me, I couldn't careless about the 2 failed brs yesterday. Heck, you confirmed it yourself, they failed due to pc dogs not even killarrest smh

Joe, clearly you're stubborn, thus you're not welcome to join the discussion. Have a good day men!!

[Markus]

@Ikzelf said in Remove killarrest:

Great for bringing cop activity back, now it's overpowered due to the numbers.

Could have not said it better :crazypepe:

[Cornelius]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHA spawns as HLS, gets free combat shotgun, shield and thinks he is good at arresting

[Bunny]

Instead of nerfing the bank robberies by removing kill-arrest, how about making the succesfull bank robberies more profitable? Bank robberies are supposed to be hard, but not to feel underwhelming on the reward side. High risk, high reward right?

This way, we could get more criminals to join the bank robberies to stop it, more organized bank robberies as it pays out way more? That is, if the cop side gets too strong on stopping the bank robbery.

As in more rewarding, you could add that every person who has attended the bank robbery, if it's fully cleared (all vaults) gets x amount of cash for participating, even if they're arrested? That could make it pay off more even if you do get jailed, making it more fair. I think the frustration comes from being jailed before getting any money off, and obviously getting arrested straight off by dying

I think it's too early to straight off remove kill-arrest, but rather try different solutions first, as in buffing the rewards and making it more worth-while to take part in bank robberies.

[Patrol]

@TaaviLaudur

Lets not bring DE into this discussion because DE barely responds to any BR, maybe one or 2 DEs but not that much anymore.

[Qweezy]

Regarding Bank robs as far as my knowledge that robbing a bank shouldn't be easy for gangs to succeed it 100% or 8/8. Official gangs and criminals are already out numbering the cops.
I think criminals and gangs should take BankRobs more seriously than expecting to succeed everytime with several protectors and 2 or 3 crackers.

[Filex]

Joe, clearly you're stubborn.

did you people realize that today ?

[Franklin]

Yes remove this.. this feature does not make any sense whatsoever.. its so non realistic.. if a cop shot a criminal in real life he would go to the hospital not automatically in jail.. it's literally so dumb, and all of you are gonna say now yeye like SAES has so many other things realistic.. see well thats the problem.. everytime something non realistic gets added everyone says who cares if its not realistic this this and this thing aren't realistic aswell and then we'll get so many unrealistic things that it will be just dumb.. lets not forget this is a Roleplay server after all, and also the cop side is way too overpowered right now, the feature was good for the time it was released in but now I believe it should get removed, because cops should always try to arrest first and not kill.