[SUGGESTION] Recent Bank Robbery Rule/Script Changes

[Durby]

Hello. As everyone knows, gang management brought a new system to bank robberies. According to the old rules, A gang needed to have TEN cops (squad/normal police spawn/some of the police groups and special groups). Now, this has changed. Now you have to have at least TEN SQUAD members in their squad spawn that are NOT AFK. Afk squad members or squad members in different spawns do not count and don't make progress in the cop limit.

After this change has been implemented, there has been a drastic decrease in bank rob amounts. And the bank robberies that take place often fail. I don't have the slightest idea why changes are happening that'd make the cop side a lot stronger while leaving the criminal side where it is
or even pushing it back.

We all know we won't go back to the old system or a new system is nowhere near to come, so I have a suggestion.

1-) Bring a script that highlights AFK cops.

Justification | When planning a bank robbery, every gang has to deal with numerous situations such as grouping, worrying about the cop count, trying to locate cops that often raid robbery group-ups via BR leaks, or using the ridiculous advantages they've been given. On top of everything else, they need to constantly check the BR marker to see if there are AFK cops that'd prevent them from robbing. And while doing that they take a great risk. Crackers or important br members either get spotted and spoil the BR or get arrested. So give us an indicator to show afk cops.

2-) Counting EVERY squad member even if they're not in their respective squad spawn.

Justification | It has been made clear to us that criminals can't spawn as cops to surpass the cop limit. ( Even though that is not possible anymore, I thought I'd reiterate this point.). The gangs that did this were punished harshly. But the same goes for squad members, they can't spawn as another class during a bank robbery to lower the cop count. I've seen on multiple occasions when squad members magically spawn as Secret Service, Money Transporter, ALT, or any civilian spawn when a BR is about to commence. I myself reported more than once with hard proofs but I haven't seen a squad being demoted or else. I understand it is hard to prove if a cop change spawns to evade a BR. It was the same for criminals to spawn cop so the admins could think of a reason to get rid of this problem, why don't they do the same for squads when they break the same rule? I've seen staff members that play as cops change spawns during bank robberies and it is funny. So my suggestion for this is; Make it so if a squad member is INGAME and NOT AFK, they count as a cop no matter their spawn. Even if it's a civilian spawn or a cop spawn, let them count. This will stop them from changing spawns to ruin robberies. I don't think it is right for a squad member to change spawns to stop a BR but then spawn as his/her squad spawn when the BR starts anyways and raid the BR. The system, as it stands, is extremely unjust for the criminal side and needs to change immediately.

Apologies for any grammar, spelling, punctuation error as I wrote this rather fast without double-checking what I wrote.

Regards...

[Franklin]

We all want this

[James]

@Durby)
My opinion the criminal side has one point in this issue, by creating the new jail, large number of police officer squad, spawn as police warden and Money Transporter, during a bank robbery it is right to count police officer squad, spawn as Money Transporter, or police warden, Total it will be wrong to add another class, ALT, cops spawn as criminal. or any other civilian.

[Immortal]

I totally agree with the second option, actually, why should we really care about those cops who are being AFK, in fact, you should punish them for not doing their duty, not giving them more advantage, I don't understand it, also SAES been like that for more than 10 years, and we were all having fun and none complained, its a weak point but just wanted to mention this, I've already requested it somewhere else, but lemme bring it up here too, the best suggestion that should be added to play a fair game for both of us is to count every squad member on the server despite the spawn they're using, and yes, a notification will be sent to them when a BR starts, also heard this from Jojo, that there is a rule preventing squads from spawning as any other spawns to ruin a gang's BR, actually, we did lots of reports towards them but nothing happened yet, so if you really wanna apply this rule, you should implement the suggestion above.
@SAES-Gang-Managers

[Immortal]

@james We're talking about those ones who ruin a gang's BR, also abusing the system by spawning any other spawns before the BR starts, also I've mentioned above, that there will be a notification sent to them, they should leave whatever they're doing and respond fast to the bank robbery call because their main role/duty is to play as a squad member, same for me, my main role on the server is to be playing as a gang member, so as a result if my gang called for a turf war, etc, I'll leave whatever I'm doing and respond to their calls

[Henry]

Let me give some extra information as there are some details some people get wrong.

First thing, about second suggestion, that will not happen at all. SAES in general doesn't aim to enforce gameplay on anyone as a general policy and counting every squad member on the server was seen as a way to force cops to respond to bank robberies.

Second thing, I'm pretty sure highlighting AFK cops is possible and something that doesn't affect cop's gameplay while it helps to the organization of a bankrob. Thing is some of you are mentioning it's possible for cops to simply respawn to avoid BRs, so let me quote one of latest announcements in GM server:

In addition to this, an AFK check has been implemented which means that after being idle for a set amount of time, a cop will no longer be considered active and as such will not count towards the 10 squad members limit. This will eliminate any excuses that cops might have for swapping spawns precisely at the time of a BR being started. Any cases of cops changing spawns; with the sole purpose being preventing the BR from happening, will result in player punishment and may likely reflect on the squad as whole in the monthly GM results announcement post.

[Immortal]

@henry Actually, I'm not forcing every cop to respond to the BR calls, It's up to them at the end, I'm just requesting this because the rule of reporting whoever respawn to ruin a gang's BR won't be that effective, because they will simply stick to a specific number, once they pass it, they will respawn to another spawn, and I'm not randomly talking or something, actually the day that script was implemented, gangs were not able to start a BR for a day because of that, 24 hours without a single BR, and the same is still happening, actually cops are controlling us atm, which is the same as you've mentioned above, they're forcing us when to start a BR and when to not, and when they do, you gonna find whole cops arriving at the bank, and you are now putting a gang who are planning to start a BR in a very bad situation, either they regroup and get their defenders, or they take care of the marker in case if any cop went afk or respawned, and It's going to fail at the end.
This is what happened after implementing it, I don't want to make it long, just wanted to explain that this affecting gangs activity in a bad way, and nowadays what brings fun as a gang member is doing BRs, so better study the situation as a whole, or remove the new script and just don't add money transporter to the cops count, as simple as it's.

[Durby]

@henry You're quoting the rule which is saying that cops will be punished for swapping spawns to avoid a bank rob. When has that ever happened? How can one prove that cops change spawn? As I said, I reported the same people repeatedly with video, screenshot, and explanation proofs and NOTHING happened. If you're guaranteeing me that a task force will be created to hunt cops who change spawn and you punish them and their squad like Medellin was punished, I'm all good with that. Scratch my 2nd suggestion. And as Immortal already said, we're not forcing anyone to do anything. The suggestion I prevailed is a humble barrier to stop cops from doing what they're doing.

About the first suggestion, It doesn't have to be an indicator, you can give us a command of some sort that'd reveal the active cop count at the time. With the possibilities Lua and MTA scripting give, you can come up with numerous solutions to this problem. You play as a criminal yourself Henry. And you see what gangs go through every day to set up a bank robbery these days. Why does it have to be so hard for criminals to certain things while cops are given every damn tool? Why is a gang manager saying, " You're making it too easy to take more precaution to make bank robs harder"? Why don't cops try to find a way around their problems (without breaking the server rules) and work the problem? I'm not sure if you think that what's been happening is "normal", or you think criminals are way too superior over cops so gang management and SAES members keep spamming scripts, rules to make the gameplay easier for cops?

What you've been saying (or any gang manager at this point) is not an anti-justification for our facts. You just keep maneuvering the conversation to other and irrelevant places to avoid necessary change. How do you expect a level 3 gang to do 45 bankrob/turfs during a time like this to achieve the next level? I can go on and on about this matter because it is clear that some things are unjust in the server as it is.

[Henry]

@Immortal I know you don't want to force anything on anyone, but still, it's a way to indirect force people to spawn and respond and we have had several discussions about this already and it won't go ahead. It's not something that will be done aslong as an alternative exists, I'm pretty sure. AFK system is something that was implemented recently, which hasn't been assesed live properly yet and therefore is still subject to change.

@Durby rule is pretty much recent so I doubt if has been enforced at all yet. There won't be any task force, just like there is not a task force to guarantee you don't get deathmatched and the reason reporting exists. Guaranteeing something is something I cannot do.

If there is an indicator or a counter for AFK people that will depend on the development team and if this is finally seen as something necesary.

We don't maneuver the conversation as we keep listening to what people has to say and try to adapt it. Sadly, we cannot make a change and then make another one the next day, as the impact of the changes needs to be assessed. Until now, those gangs which have applied for new levels have complied with the requirements and even exceeded them, so I don't think (as for now) any gang would face requirements or activities as a problem. There are things that need a change? Maybe, but going once and again over the same topic without new approaches will lead us nowhere, if you can understand.

[Durby]

@henry I understand you completely. It is true that you can't make a change right after you well... make a change. And that shows us that the development team is rushing, or being rushed, to make these changes. Any idea or script change should be made patiently and every angle should be covered before actually completing the codes and adding it to the server. And for the "if it's necessary" part, you don't have to be extremely genius to see that the new system is unjust. You just have to get rid of your pre-judgments and look at the situation from an independent point of view. I hope the development team, or whoever makes the decision to alter scripts, see that the system is not right as it is. Nothing much I can say I guess.

[Durby]

Bump.

[JukyPlatinium]

bump

[Mixpeko]

bump.

[Immortal]

Alright, let's bring it up back, as you have seen how your new script affected our activity in a bad way, also same for squad members, it's rare now to find 10 active squad member on and I can show evidence about this, even those retards start respawning to any other spawns whenever the count exceeds 7, thinking they're achieving something by doing this, and let's talk about this point.

@Henry mentioned above that if any cop changed his spawns to ruin a gang's BR, he will be punished and his squad too, why I didn't see any kind of actions taken towards those members who were reported for doing this, or you're only good at giving instant punishments to @Medelln-Cartel @DROT , that's so ridiculous.

About the script, you're working on, to marker the AFK cops, you actually don't really need to, because they just keep respawning every time the counter exceeds a specific number, and why you should add something like this, why you making me unable to start a bank robbery when there are like 18 squad member on but most of them are afk, and rather of punishing them for being useless, you giving them more advantages, either add the second option which was mentioned above, since none of you guys willing to do something to those members who're ruining the system, or you can simply remove it and just don't add money transporter spawn to the count.

We don't have time for you new shit scripts, we came here to enjoy the game, if you think the other side is weak, try to give them some more advantages without affecting our side, we're happy with what we have, you have already ruined it with implementing the new jailbreak system, and now you're killing it with this shit, and for the @SAES-Gang-Managers from our side, please try to show them how bad the situation is, cuz it really seems like they're doing this without even considering your opinions.

[Durby]

@immortal Amen.

[Law]

MAN what ever we say no one care from admins have the power to make something good for server
we ask for add more rps for cops side to rise cops numbers and activity
admins make new jail easy for cops rext server activity even for cops cause not ez to do any jb in new jail make alot of gates markers for cops to rip any jb fast.
While old jail was to make cops active all time and spawn as HLS DE to rip any jb and was fun for both of us cops got money rise stats actions never end but now sad
even 6 banks only for 14 gangs soon maybe more added and
we ask to add more banks or make reset banks to 4 or 2 h
but admins make only 2 BRS for 1 gang per day + add script AFK cops + 10 squad members to do BRS + new rules
for give squad cops reward for being AFK

now i see from near 2 Months even before cops side be more inactive
server start be boring more and more

when you try to say something to Nano in game start insulting me in main chat
when I try to talk or make topics cause only for brothers and good friends i found them in server make feel like IAM beside my family that is why i hope server be active and be bigger to be special place for all of us but what i see from Management and nano make me feel bad for future of our server

[Hatchet]

@immortal Well said...I agree with you too

[Hatchet]

+1 from me

[Stoner]

I still dont get it, what was wrong with the previous rules. As i heard the target here is to lower the success rate of Bankrobs. Hmm, a lot if gangs are doing successfull bankrobs, criminals get a bit of money for assisting the gang whos robbing it. Cops rush all the time, which they get pretty good amount for single arrest. They get "x" amount of arrest money till we finish the bankrob. We criminals post activity, they post activity. We get small amout of money, cops get more after few arrests. So its a win/win for the both sides. Whats the point of lowering the bankrobs success rate? Is it 20% or 100%, whats the difference? Like anything changes if cops post activity: stopped bankrob? They level up easier or what?

[DELETED-USER15]

Are you really taking it like that ? Pushing criminal side back ? Criminals were spawning as police and other groups so they can see the radio chat and to make the others BR successfully by raising the police online numbers, And about "Justification" number 2, Like that you are trying to force the cops to not spawn at anything they want to spawn as, That's unfair for police, For example what if i'm spawned as a cop and I got bored from playing as a cop, and I tried to spawn as ALT or anything else, I will get punished because I wanted to spawn as another class while there's a BR on ? Really ??

[iGoogle]

@mohamed-mostafa said in [SUGGESTION] Recent Bank Robbery Rule/Script Changes:

Are you really taking it like that ? Pushing criminal side back ? Criminals were spawning as police and other groups so they can see the radio chat and to make the others BR successfully by raising the police online numbers, And about "Justification" number 2, Like that you are trying to force the cops to not spawn at anything they want to spawn as, That's unfair for police, For example what if i'm spawned as a cop and I got bored from playing as a cop, and I tried to spawn as ALT or anything else, I will get punished because I wanted to spawn as another class while there's a BR on ? Really ??

Have you thought this situation from criminals side? Heres only that difference that criminals can be what they want, unless you dont spawn as a cop to manipulate the system. But my view in that case is that, if you cant manipulate the system as crim, then its not allowed as a cop too. But its hard to prove that you have really manipulated the system as a full of understand onto. Thats why it needs to get repaired, example that thing that they said above: onto br can be included everyone online player who belongs on squad to start br. Why? Because heres that thing: Freedom to be what you want with no restriction to not to do that, blabla.. If heres ongoing br, you can come to help from "offduty" to assist your mates in ongoing bankrobbery. Thats the way like in real life could do on this situation. Then it goes correctly, without problems and you keep your freedom to playe as whoever you want to, at least from my point of view.

[Immortal]

@mohamed-mostafa please update yourself with the new rules added, before posting here, thank you.

[Leonard]

@mohamed-mostafa said in [SUGGESTION] Recent Bank Robbery Rule/Script Changes:

,

its not up to us bro its the GM's who put that rule so yeah you cops agreed for it, and the topic is about this too cause of the new no sense rules they added