THIS IS NOT FAIR

[kipt]

Finally have an excuse to post in here.

@teddy said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

(...) outside of SAES you would notice other servers give far far more extreme punishments, all the way from an hour mute in CIT for calling someone an asshole to a kick on FFS for speaking Turkish on Global. A 5 minute adminjail for blatantly breaking a rule is, by all comparisons, pretty generous.
(...)
Please note that I am merely an admin and semi-retired saes member

I wonder why. Have fun over there ;)

[James]

@combine @HESHA @joshbond Combine i think you are very wrong and write bullshit.this explains everything that you must read F1 and don't death match car that are just parking at LVX. YOU had to stars and wanted bribe so i come out you got your bribe and after you start DM my bus . So please don't give wrong information.and don't have to give you warning from the time you are crazy at lvx with one monster truck death match car. and who are you to tell me to give you one explanation if i did report you or not ..i think you are very childish attitude.and about Hesha was telling me he reported me (with a bullshit reason probably) then what is your problem mate you have friend and don't get admin good luck to you..the funny is you come after to my base and you ask me that you want to join ice.and don't dispute tis i have evidence screenshots of the chat. so next time respect and don't try to challenge with lies...

[Combine]

@james said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

@combine @HESHA @joshbond Combine i think you are very wrong and write bullshit.this explains everything that you must read F1 and don't death match car that are just parking at LVX. YOU had to stars and wanted bribe so i come out you got your bribe and after you start DM my bus . So please don't give wrong information.and don't have to give you warning from the time you are crazy at lvx with one monster truck death match car. and who are you to tell me to give you one explanation if i did report you or not ..i think you are very childish attitude.and about Hesha was telling me he reported me (with a bullshit reason probably) then what is your problem mate you have friend and don't get admin good luck to you..the funny is you come after to my base and you ask me that you want to join ice.and don't dispute tis i have evidence screenshots of the chat. so next time respect and don't try to challenge with lies...

Seriously.. I.. I write bullshit? Did Bartman teach you to write English?

And you're the one lying, although I don't have screenshots, I did not DM your bus, only slightly pushed it with my "monster truck" called Combine Harvester which doesn't even exceed a decent speed to make any damage my simply ramming, and I was spawned trainee and I wasn't wanted nor I asked for a bribe, also I have the logs too, so you've missed that.

And I'm not gonna lose more time here, it's even hard to understand your shitty writing.

[James]

@combine crazy kid if i don't know English that i born in Australia then you must not understand English. probably you understand only Japanese...And about the chat that i have with you screenshots and DM car mate don't make me upload them on https://imgur.com/ and post them and after you look one big idiot...

[Combine]

@james said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

@combine crazy kid if i don't know English that i born in Australia then you must not understand English. probably you understand only Japanese...And about the chat that i have with you screenshots and DM car mate don't make me upload them on https://imgur.com/ and post them and after you look one big idiot...

Please show the screenshots here.

I only pushed the bus with my Combine Harvester and you were outside, because then you shot me down till my vehicle exploded, or you're gonna deny that too?

[Joshbond]

@teddy said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

Teddy I understand that SAES entrust their CS members to use their powers fairly and correctly. I am someone out of most who has learnt this and suffered the consequences of this over my SAES career.

However today is different. The situation that lead to ICE and other squad members being jailed is not something mentioned in the F1 rules. So first of all it is not a violation of the server rules.

It is indeed a violation of F1 rules and it always has been. F1 has gone a massive overhaul and then another one, but we can all agree there are a couple of 'common sense' rules on this server and not opening the jail door to let your crim friends out or to abuse it to get arrests is something that falls under that.

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

2nd of all, their was no attempt to communicate with these squad members. They were just immediately admin jailed.

Generally speaking admins and staff members fall into the trap of jail on sight the moment we see a rule being broken, simply because there's too many reports to deal with. Is it correct? No and we all know that's not the optimal situation, however this all results from seeing a blatant rulebreak and an impulsive decision.

The adminjail would not have happened if the rulebreak did not happen. It's equivalent to Person A shooting person B for no reason, then person B coming back from hospital to kill person A in revenge. Person A screenshots it and sends it in a report. The report logs and screenshot clearly shows person B deathmatching A for no reason at all, so person B gets adminjailed. None of this would have happened if person B didn't rulebreak in the first place. Is it fair? No, A is a dickhead. But we don't have 30 mins to spend on solving a single report especially when there's a risk the initial rulebreaker doesn't even speak English.

There's a lot to criticise about our administration decisions, but they all stem from a rule being broken in some way. What also needs to be realised is that if you spent any time outside of SAES you would notice other servers give far far more extreme punishments, all the way from an hour mute in CIT for calling someone an asshole to a kick on FFS for speaking Turkish on Global. A 5 minute adminjail for blatantly breaking a rule is, by all comparisons, pretty generous.

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

Now Teddy, during my staff days, jailing without communication is something that should not be done by any staff. I was warned on a few occasions for admin jailing someone on the spot without communication, by SAES HQ members. So has this logic now changed?

It hasn't changed per se, but as I said, it comes from being used to people breaking rules often and a general lack of time if all you do is solve reports and warp around the server spending 20 minutes playing Sherlock, it becomes impractical and we all know a warning will enter one ear and exit the other 5 minutes later.

Each time I become generous and don't punish (lightly) as a first resort, I find myself warping around listening to people denying they did anything wrong (or not understanding why it's wrong), then spending too much time explaining it and then an hour later getting a report from someone that that person did the same thing over again anyway. No incentive there, is there? As a result most of us jail as a first resort, with less time if it's a smaller rulebreak (or not at all) or a new player, or more stars if it's an old arse being an arsehole. Then send notices to explain more, although sometimes people warp to speak.

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

On the other hand, I do think these sort of incidents do need to be brought to light and not kept in the shadows.

It helps if you acknowledge you guys broke a rule or complain about administration decisions, rather than trying to tangle yourself out by saying opening doors isn't a rulebreak in the first place or that "we're innocent because we demand a screenshot saying otherwise" The onus of proving guilt is on the reporter, not on the reportee or the staff handling it, thus the staff/admin doesn't justify himself in their decisions.

Please note that I am merely an admin and semi-retired saes member, not a cs leader (and certainly not someone looking to take more positions) so what is up here is merely my opinion plus an explanation of how we operate, not an official judgement.

As said in my previous post, I will not comment regarding this situation anymore as it has got a little out of hand and I don't want this to effect peoples opinion on myself in a negative manner. I am not trying to get anyone in trouble with this topic but simply trying to state that maybe a review of some admin processes may be required.

However I would like to thank you for your genuine opinion and feedback on my comments Teddy, it is always appreciated when someone actually posts a decent response back, so thank you.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, maybe their is part of the story I am missing.

I am just disappointed with then how I was treated a few years back by lance and I was told that I must always speak to the other side before jailing them on the spot. When now people agree with the opinions I had back in the day which was "It is impractical to speak to every individual I admin jail" As this was the main reason for me being removed from staff, from what Lance said back in 2015.

[Teddy]

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

that I must always speak to the other side before jailing them on the spot. When now people agree with the opinions I had back in the day which was "It is impractical to speak to every individual I admin jail"

A core difference would be that when you were staff, jailing offline people wasn't scripted yet (or so I believe.) Today, most adminjails are to people who are offline - judging by the admin logs - and speaking to them is impractical. The same still applies to people who were reported who are online, but to a lesser extent.

Correct me if I'm wrong but most of you were jailed while offline. I remember seeing the report and two of the four reported were definitely offline, and the report was handled after I quit, so presumably even more were off.

@kipt said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

Finally have an excuse to post in here.

@teddy said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

(...) outside of SAES you would notice other servers give far far more extreme punishments, all the way from an hour mute in CIT for calling someone an asshole to a kick on FFS for speaking Turkish on Global. A 5 minute adminjail for blatantly breaking a rule is, by all comparisons, pretty generous.
(...)
Please note that I am merely an admin and semi-retired saes member

I wonder why. Have fun over there ;)

stop trying to recreate outfit on Boston's asslickers

[Licano]

[Yoda]

Like I said before. ICE, shouldn't have involved with such situations and criticising SAES's punishment system isn't true. You should've been improved yourself and squad but instead of this you guys just keep doing same mistakes then after getting a right punishment, complaining about it in behold of community.

[Filex]

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

@brophy said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

Wow.

Such feels for being put in jail.

Brophy, I am a bit disappointed with your comment to be honest. I expected more of a responsible review of this due to yourself being saes HQ. Now I understand that this is just a game, I completely do but such actions from SAES staff are serious.

Similar to the example I used above with myself. If the sort of action that Human done was not acceptable 3 years ago, when I was staff. Then why are they acceptable now?

I think this is something that should not be ignored as ICE reputation has been effected big time by this and could possibly effect our rank up to level 3 because of a poor choice from a SAES staff member.

Like Brophy gives a fuck about what you think LMAO ahhahahahah

[Filex]

@combine said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

@joshbond said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

@tut-greco said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

butthurt beyond 110%

Not butthurt mate got more important things to be worried about ;)

Just trying to help these guys out and also point out such actions should not be accepted. Not trying to get Human removed at all man. Everyone makes mistakes but I think a HQ member needs to speak to him about his poor choice of actions today and give him some advice on what he should do.

It's funny because looking at all the text you've wrote on this topic it clearly seems like you don't have much important shit to do.

I'm gonna briefly answer you too... Today I had an issue with ICE|James|VL who decided to shoot down my Combine Harvester till it exploded, claiming that he did it because I slightly rammed his bus at LV X which was stopped and he wasn't even driving, to top the thing he couldn't even explain himself for his actions with his bad English and when I asked an explanation to ICE|Sam|L he just told me "It's just a game, have fun" till I lastly convinced him to speak with James which probably didn't even happen. Oh and I was spawned trainee with 0 stars.

Oh yeah James didn't even say "stop hitting my bus" before shooting me till my vehicle exploded, which I find pretty strange coming from an offical squad vice leader... Also not much to speak about his childish attitude, as I asked him if he reported me and he said he did not, and 10 minutes earlier Hesha was telling me he reported me (with a bullshit reason probably)

So you want actions to be taken but certainly not inside your squad, when your Vice Leader cannot even abstain of doing "revenge deathmatch"

Everything I see is pure interest.

already everybody knows it ICE fucked everything since level 2

[Ramos]

hi there, FIX FUCKING FORUMS

[kipt]

I believe this got answer already, either by @Teddy or @Gengar's post. So I think its better if @vinnie closes this for now, unless either ICE, SAES or the staff in question has more to say, which in my opinion should be held in private.

Side note and my small opinion about this topic: I understand all the frustration but I believe that neither the staff mention or any other staff goes around trying to screw, in a bad way, with people. On the other hand, I believe that ICE leadership needs to work on their communication skills, not only on the english side of it. They must learn when and when not to engage in a fight. We all have our meltdowns here and there but let's not go overboard with it.

[Filex]

@kipt said in THIS IS NOT FAIR:

:::

I believe this got answer already, either by @Teddy or @Gengar's post. So I think its better if @vinnie closes this for now, unless either ICE, SAES or the staff in question has more to say, which in my opinion should be held in private.

Side note and my small opinion about this topic: I understand all the frustration but I believe that neither the staff mention or any other staff goes around trying to screw, in a bad way, with people. On the other hand, I believe that ICE leadership needs to work on their communication skills, not only on the english side of it. They must learn when and when not to engage in a fight. We all have our meltdowns here and there but let's not go overboard with it.

:::

come on @kipt let @Licano and @Tilong have more fun watching this lmao

[Bone]