I didn't think I was gonna make any posts in these forums anymore but

Cya mens

@rykila are you http?

Because without you I'm just ://

Rationally speaking considering how dead turfs already are & how demotivated one side is to bother fighting non-HS turfs, are you gaining anything by this potential update?

Unless UE plans to fight HS etc for fun, this seems pretty pointless overall, or at least, fitting a completely different era of SAES. Realistically you're only reducing the number of turf zones that will be contested, whether this is your intention or not.

Was about to log on SAES but there's 91 players at 17:00 on a Saturday so I'll use my time here instead as I forgot to reply:

@bas260 said in GM Questionnaire: Why are you not a cop?:

• The cop community in my eyes is more mature than the criminal community. That's just my opinion, I haven't been in a gang or a criminal ever.
• On your second point. I haven't read all the replies to this topic. But I would just like to point out that the only two cop groups in the game are PC and SAI.

HLS? DE? SS? SAPD?

They ain't gangs...

Compared to criminals having CLO and well, technically OB, though that's dead. A ratio of 2 v 6 at least.

@Teddy * There's a general attitude of; if you can't beat them, report them. I've never heard this on the cop side in the 7 years I've played. And this is information you as an admin-only have about the reports. Maybe you're biased because of it.

I mean that's not a point of bias is it? Just an observation anyone with an admin panel can make. Cops massively outweigh criminals in reports per day while making up a small minority of the server. Hence I don't even agree with the initial "maturity" point because a large amount of crim players would agree that many cops only play-to-report.

• Why is the PC spawn locked? in my opinion, because it spawns with rules and a certain level of maturity is expected of you. And if you open up the PC spawns to anyone it would hurt squads and groups. Why would you be in a squad or try to join SAI if you can have the same abilities in a public spawn.

Why do you think people join OB? They have no extra abilities over any other criminal spawn which can also jailbreak. Or SAP? It used to be an extra teamchat at best, nothing more. People join these groups because of the camaderie and the availability of like-minded people to play around with, that's what made them special & active.

PC is neither a special spawn or a "mature" spawn, and has nearly never been. For most of its history SWAT completely ignored whether somebody was a member of PC because in reality it made no difference to their application or how they are viewed as a person/player, and made little effort to push people inside the group. There was of course bonuses if people were part of SAPA, but for different reasons.

It is a redundant "group" in a group sense, and only serves to lock 80% of cop abilities behind disused classes. Opening up PC to the public would give more players the ability to experience different sidejobs (e.g. Detective) and different abilities (Coordinator/Dispatcher) which makes playing cop fun. Locking them behind only makes people less likely to play police in the first place. The inability of trainees to place barriers or even have a shotgun compared to the normal PC Officer spawn is just silly.

*The criminals in cop groups problem; this is directly from GM. Not quoted but something like the following is written down somewhere. A group maybe not be some sort of squad for criminals. And the other way around it's also not possible.

Yeah I'm aware, hence why I said people don't play as cop more often. There isn't anything to get your attention/interest. A lot of people used to join DE as a criminal, then switch to cop side temporarily or permanently later. Nowadays there isn't anything like that, and no offence to SAI, but it cannot offer the same.

^ In effect the solution to why people aren't cops is multi-ended, and group managers are part of that long-term solution.

@Leonard I must say that in my own experience you're incorrect. If I see trainees running around and they are not gang members (who change their name which is incredibly dumb just keep your own nickname). I would teach them how to play the game introduce them to it a little. Find someone from their own country. Tell them what they should try to join if they want it. Just ask @dobroski I helped him when he first joined. Same with @nvidia.

I highly doubt this is true to be honest, perhaps not from you, but definitely from the cop side as a whole. It's no secret that the majority of gangs PM new players in an attempt to make them loyal and join the gang, most notably any of the 22 gangs Mrwan made, UE, sometimes Z & CripZ ... ThC and TT scout new players but rarely 'teach' them the game per se, I think only AA doesn't do anything in that sense.

On the cop side there isn't anything remotely similar. Nearly all squads refuse to engage with new players, whether they are trainees or otherwise, and ignore their existence. There's just a holier-than-you attitude that squads like SWAT / FBI / FOX are above standards and shouldn't recruit new players. You can even find the exact same words from FOX HQ Howlze in server echo, same was said by a mid level FBI member and from my own experience in SWAT I know we did the same.

Of course that means gangs will pick up new players instead, including trainees, so there's rarely anyone ever who joins a squad as a new player. The days of SAPA are long gone, and I would comfortably say the death of SAPA is one of the reasons why cop side began to die in general. There's nothing to get involved in as a new player if you're willing to become a cop, so you end up in the gang side instead.

@antirug said in Issues which lead to lack of players on Saes:

There isn't a lack of players on SAES, however there was a lack of players for the cops side on the server. That matter is currently being solved, so I don't really see the issue here.

The only way someone can possibly make a statement like this is if they are either really inactive or totally not self-aware.

SAES averages 125 players a day at best (bearing in mind anything less than 100 is pretty much completely dead) and sometimes jumps to <150 on major events like gangs calling for a turf or an attempted bankrob in the once-a-week time it happens & weekends.

During the peak of corona lockdowns, SAES was more or less competing with SAUR on playerbase, daily passing 220-250 peaks and otherwise around 150 for most of the day, never below ~70 at night. I remember still having many cops coming to 1 AM bankrobs and plenty of turfs less than half a year ago.

This is SAUR now.

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They have no difference in the amount of players, while in SAES, the playerbase has dropped significantly since the start of the year and even more since the start of this month by like 1 in 3 players no longer really logging in daily.

Anyway, for me it's pretty obvious that the reason for SAES' accelerated death is down to the killing of bankrobs and jailbreaks, which subsequently also naturally kills turfs, leaving SAES to basically become a SR & VIP simulator with a flaming/toxic main chat to get involved with for fun when there's nothing else to do.

SAES is basically losing around 10 players a month rn peak time, and I won't be surprised if it's around 110-115 peak time by the end of this month. Obviously it will only get worse once gang management begins to give out notifications and warnings for inactivity and even fewer players will be motivated to fix them rather than closing.

Or maybe the reason is the Very Official Gang Boycott

Feliz cumpleanos mi mayor hermano desde sur de espana

Probably best I answer why I have 5000 hours, of which 3000+ were spent in B~B and ThC since 2018 and <2000 were over 8 years in SWAT and it's mostly the first point:

1. The challenge difference between the two sides. Scripters and rule-makers have made being a cop insanely easy to the point that it is simply not fun beyond an hour or two. It is impossible to lose a 1v1 scenario as a cop unless you make a mistake or you suck.

The lack of a proper challenge outside of major server events like Turfs, BRs, JBs, maybe SRs and VIP drops where you meet several criminals grouped in the same location makes cop life boring because you can either AFK and wait for them to happen or you can chase people around knowing that when you manage to stop them, you will win no matter what.
(Unless you are @Sou then you manage to lose 8 v 2 streamable.com /uxo31v

2. Squad politics when it comes to groups

The level of squad politics when it comes to getting groups as a cop is in a different fucking dimension compared to gangs. Crims may complain that e.g. CLO is AABBTT-sided, it does not even come close to the favouritism and politics on the police side. On the one hand - in order to become a DE member while in FOX and FBI or HLS in SWAT the only thing you need is a pulse and good relations with your HQs.

On the other hand, in order to become a DE/HLS member in MIT or SAFP (sometimes FBI) or countless of other closed squads, you literally have HQs of other squads PMing you "join us and we offer you DE." Borderline impossible to join from SAFP/MIT anyway. I am part of the 3 people who experienced both DE and CLO and I think @Fnabbe can say the same thing. It's not just the recruitment process but the ease of getting ranks.

Everyone who joined CLO when I did and the batch before that 6 months earlier is still a Soldado (that's January & Summer 2019 btw) meanwhile there are people who joined DE in 2020 and are already leading units or borderline HQ. When it's that easy you just give up as there's nothing to achieve.

3. Cops/squad side complaining and report baiting/hunting

Probably the more controversial of the points but it's true and nauseating. The culture in squad side of complaining about everything like how hard it is or there's too many crims is extremely annoying to any casual player.

This includes report hunting / report baiting. The criminal side is far more forgiving when it comes to small rulebreaks and there's a different culture. Meanwhile playing as a criminal feels like you have to pray to allah and have shadowplay on 24/7 whenever you come close to cops, especially at banks.
Which isn't wrong, because from an admin POV, cops far fucking outnumber criminals in reporting people. There's 26 reports ingame right now, 11 are from cops. Cops do not make up nearly half the server. There's a general attitude of; if you can't beat them, report them.

Playing among such people is off-putting and many people who might've switched to cop side simply don't want the association with said people and the hate that very justifiably comes along with it.

youtube com/watch?v=2K96bl_rHoY - a prime example of a report baiting ""deathmatching"" report by a cop sent by the crim as a defense from the weekend. Why would the average crim want the hate that comes along with being associated with such people?

4. The switching difficulty/rigidity

The server simply isn't fluid enough to make switching between crim side and cop side easy, and over time it has actually become more of a lifetime choice. There has been so many changes to the cop side over the last few years like fewer squads to choose from and the Desert Eagles ban on gangs that made it way too restrictive to bother. Because if you join the cop side and want a break or switch back, you'll undo all the progress (DE/HLS/SAI) you made.

The only counter-argument is that CLO is gang-restricted, but cop side is not in a position to make demands when it can't fill three 4-door cars at peak time, especially when opening CLO to cops would make cops even less active.

Also the disappearance of groups like SAP and the recent inactivity of OB (probably down to new jail?) has reduced crim-side groups to basically CLO only. So if you make the switch but want to play around as a criminal sometimes, your only options are drug dealer. Not that fun.

And it makes the Group Management ban on new criminal-like groups even more confusing. There's literally only one and it isn't even under GM supervision. The other is inactive and there used to be like 5 or 6. CLO & CeM & SAP & OB used to exist at the same time and it worked fine.

It's a funny irony that the most active DE HQ members (Terry and Strong) are both criminals, actually.

5. Why the actual fuck are PC spawns locked?

I can't find the reason for this. They should be public spawns. Trainee itself should be eliminated as a spawn. Don't know about Dog since the hitbox is shitty, unless you restrict it to Turkish IPs since they're all dogs anyway.

6. The people making the decisions are ignoring average cops

Don't really want to moan about other admins / group HQs but a major problem lies here as well. There's an illusion among people making decisions that they are helping cop side or decreasing success rates when they aren't.

An MIT squad member couldn't give a shit whether HLS are allowed to attend LV bankrobs or not. They aren't HLS and you've made it impossible for them to join anyway.

A SAFP member with 250 hours couldn't give a shit about your BR defence rules which were made to protect your house-spawn-spamming 5 seconds away from the bank because they don't have 100 mil to waste on an icon right outside.

I can't think of a single gameplay or rule change in the last year or 2 which made cop side easier for the average cop, despite so many new fucking rules and gameplay/mapping changes. Except vending machines.

The entire 10-Squad rule literally hurts the squad side a lot more than it hurts the criminal side, and the whole fact that GMs & Squad leaders don't see it the same way makes it a comedic tragedy. 2 of last 5 ThC members are taken directly from squads. Latinos who have literally nothing to do after 21:00 when bankrobs stop until 15:00 the next day.

That's not to say that you should invite every squad member to HLS or give every cop a spawn outside the bank whenever a BR is going on (then again, this is SAES, so I fully expect this to be taken onboard as a legitimate idea,) but simply think whether whatever you are doing is helping cops, or you and your friends. This goes to every squad HQ, DE/HLS/SAI HQ, GMs and developers.

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TLDR Version/Fix options

Cop side is too easy & too boring alone, cop side reputation is too toxic, server is way too rigid making moving between cop and crim too difficult.

A - Reverse every gameplay and rule change in the last year or two to return to sanity because cops were more active back then anyway. Don't know about mappings, personally I feel jailbreaks have completely died since the new jail, might explain why it's 150 peak instead of 200 players now, not much to do.

B - Let crims open cop groups with the option of having a spawn and actively encourage them. Actual groups that behave like squads, just in a group format. Like SAPA in the past. It fixes up short term activity problems and long term people might move around more often because the server is more fluid and easier to switch sides.

C - Completely forget the whole idea of a squad and go down the APB:R style route. Kill-arrest across the whole map, reduce jail time to like 1 second per star and let cops turf. Basically turn cop side into a premium crim spawn. Then maybe people who like combat will join as well, instead of only people who like to rambo swing a stick.

@Ikzelf

People should have to worry less about how something they may do could cause an admin to admin jail them for it.

Jesus, this. Also might explain why money transporter is completely dead less than a month later considering it turned into an adminjail simulator on day one.

Address: Stays Milk Store
Account name: omarharb
Last seen: 13 December 2020
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nvm I lost it to the greatest ever...