Reporting ClaR.

[Adistar]

After a lot of deliberation, I decided the best is to make this topic. After recent events I have received evidence that a player named ClaR is intentionally trying to defame me.

BACKGROUND INFO(You can skip this if the case is known for you already):
Recently, my gang called The Company has been demoted for allegedly using stolen SAES scripts in a local, with a password secured gang server, which has been reported by this individual called ClaR, the vice leader of Underground Empires. In the end, we have accepted the consequences and decided to move on as usual. I have decided to ignore this whole incident and act as if nothing has happened. However, lately I have been hearing stories from left and right, with clear evidence, that ClaR’s intention of the report was different and actually aimed at me in an offensive way.

The evidence I have received are direct conversations between certain individuals and ClaR. Out of respect for privacy, I decided to cover up their names. The first evidence for this is a party conversation between ClaR and a player in-game, where they had a talk about the demotion of The Company. The following has been said(I left the name of that player out and named him ‘XXX’):

[2018-09-06 12:45:48] [Output] : (P) ue|clario: when they reported
[2018-09-06 12:45:59] [Output] : (P) XXX: is kinda harsh
[2018-09-06 12:46:03] [Output] : (P) XXX: bro
[2018-09-06 12:46:04] [Output] : (P) ue|clario: i wanted to hurt adistar, not ThC at all
[2018-09-06 12:46:09] [Output] : (P) XXX: u hurted all thc
[2018-09-06 12:46:12] [Output] : (P) XXX: u demoted them
[2018-09-06 12:46:14] [Output] : (P) ue|clario: didnt expect whole thc will get demoted
[2018-09-06 12:46:14] [Output] : (P) XXX: dickhead xd
[2018-09-06 12:46:55] [Output] : (P) ue|clario: Everyone who they can blame are Adistar and Crank
[2018-09-06 12:47:01] [Output] : (P) XXX: Crank left
[2018-09-06 12:47:01] [Output] : (P) ue|clario: Crank caused the trouble
[2018-09-06 12:47:03] [Output] : (P) XXX: dickhead
[2018-09-06 12:47:09] [Output] : (P) ue|clario: Adistar pushed it to the edge 

I got kind of surprised, because I guess I have always been quite normal to him. Anyways, Another conversation which got sent to me, is clearly showing his reason of his hatred towards me(Hiding the identity of the individual out of respect):
https://imgur.com/hfW6nRG
For any more information, you can contact me. I feel like trying to solve this privately isn’t going to help, and wish that this could be solved more publicly, I wish to see transparency in this matter.

[Spentou]

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[Danger]

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[XpooKs]

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[Duff]

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[Vladimir]

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[Xtream]

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[Danger]

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[nicus]

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[XpooKs]

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[Xtream]

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[Adistar]

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[Mickey]

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[Duff]

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[Tombaa]

Next one to reply that isnt CS, SAES or one of the affected party will receive a ban.

[Daryl]

I suppose this report comes down to one thing, your claim of defamation.

Firstly, is defamation against the rules in SAES specifically? No actually, not at all.

That aside though, it shouldn't be condoned. However to accuse someone of defaming you, you would have to prove that they are making claims that are blatantly incorrect and they knew them to be incorrect at the time of making them.

You have no covered the particulars of your gangs demotion here, however if Clar has made accusations against your gang and the GM's have accepted his evidence and acted on it, it was obviously deemed to be truthful information.

Therefore, repeating this information, would not fall under being defamatory.

What I am asking basically is, can you prove what Clar is saying is blatantly incorrect and he knows it to be a lie?

If not, there is no defamation.

There's a reason defamation is notoriously hard to prosecute in a court of law.

You cannot report ClaR simply because he is accusing you of misconduct or speaking ill of you, that is not against any rules. We can discuss it further though if the accusations are completely unfounded and false and can be proven to be false.

[Kybali0n]

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[kenny]

And the winer is Kybali0n! 3 day ban!

[Teddy]

None of this is really reportable. We have in the past punished pairs who constantly argued and pissed the rest of us off with their gripes, but that's about as far as this goes. Just because Rikki hates (insert anyone who plays GT here), doesn't mean that his report about that player becomes invalid, because that player still broke the rules. The source of the report is irrelevant, as are their intentions.

That said, I wouldn't even call this defamation at all. Defamation means false vilification - as his claims weren't false, it can't be defamation. At worst you could say he reporting people in bad faith - to see them punished - but doesn't everyone do that anyway? Nobody reports someone who just deathmatched their arse out of love for the server and hope they won't do it to other kind souls.

The normal procedure for excess reporting or too much hatred between two individuals is normally to tell both to shut up or they get Magnus' banhammer. Now in the first such case, Joe vs Mark, the conclusion we reached is that banning either side for the act of having a grudge is insanity because not only is it impossible to make a fair judgement as to who or what sparked the first gripe or ignited the whole mutual hatred, but also because it has no effect on the server at large.

Now, let's assume I would hypothetically hate Tayber forever for the money he took out of SWAT on the day he left and never gave it back (still waiting asshole) and decide the best way to hunt him down is to take his squad down with him. All of NNB gets affected and they're demoted. The names in the screens are me. Now, most of NNB would probably begin to hate me but that I did it out of bad faith would be of no surprise to people who resent me already, in this case Tayber, in your case Crank. Both would have done things to hurt the other, but who started it is pretty irrelevant. Tayber showing those pictures would earn no good guy points simply on the basis that I was out for him.

The only part of this whole saga where I drift from the general admin opinion is that the group rather than the individuals should be punished, since we never did that with HS or AA when two or more HQ fucked up and because it makes more sense since it demotivates the rest of the group and because group punishment is just a stupid move in the first place. However it has precedence and it's part of the wider harsher GM punishments with the first being NNB, warned for most of their HQ team being banned. This case is pretty similar, but since it directly involved your gang rather than important individuals within it, it was judged a warning wasn't enough.

At the end of the day you chose to accept someone who has (pretty publicly) harmed a large gang and had a cloud of hate over him because of it. The results of this should have been obvious, not least to your relations with said gang. The extent to which the other gang may go to harm you for doing that may not be expected, but doesn't make it a rulebreak of its own.

Now, for some reasons groups like SWAT/B~B have incredibly stable HQ teams with problems throughout their history that can be counted on one hand, whereas some others have perpetual problems that follow them everywhere. But if someone in SWAT or B~B did what Crank did, do you assume most of our members would just leave it there and say 'oh well."?

TL:DR
Clar's intentions behind the report make no difference to the report's validity at all.

Although to be honest I think your intentions behind this report was only to spread the screenshots around and you knew this wouldn't have an effect in the first place, as showing the screenshots only on your Discord groups wouldn't go far enough in this mutual witchhunt. Which is fair enough, I would be pissed too, right? Unfortunately being annoyed is not reportable. I appreciate that Clar went to a pretty big extent to play detective and hunt someone down and you got harmed because of it, but the report isn't any less valid.

[UnaKadava]

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